SEO Rockstars 2026: Day 2 - Panel Discussion

[00:05] Questions, questions. Let's get this

[00:06] [ __ ] going. Anybody got a question?

[00:13] Got a whole book.

[00:14] Um Joey, um I've been testing what works

[00:20] better in Reddit, but I would like to

[00:22] ask you this about what works better for

[00:25] you post in Reddit. There are multiple

[00:28] formats like image u video you know um

[00:32] have you tried like maybe using keywords

[00:35] on image or what what do you have you

[00:36] see in your testings

[00:39] maybe same

[00:42] oh we have to trade

[00:45] you want to know about Reddit

[00:46] specifically right yeah I I tested image

[00:49] links I didn't see anything from them

[00:51] the biggest thing from Reddit is if you

[00:53] want anything you do there to have value

[00:55] it has to have activity

[00:57] So, that's why I always go about AMAs

[00:58] because you naturally get comments, you

[01:00] naturally get up votes, and as long as

[01:02] you don't go in promotional, I've seen

[01:04] it backfire where people come in and

[01:05] they're like, "Hi, I'm the best uh

[01:07] divorce lawyer in Las Vegas and you want

[01:09] to talk to me because I'm awesome."

[01:10] Like, you don't want to leave with that.

[01:12] Um, but as far as like what you use,

[01:15] like anything that's going to get lots

[01:17] of activity. Uh, one of my co-workers

[01:20] posted like a baseball card and got like

[01:23] thousands of up votes. That was like his

[01:25] first Reddit post. Um, so it's really

[01:27] easy to get engagement if you post stuff

[01:29] that like people actually care about if

[01:30] you're just trying to like get your

[01:32] account some credibility when you first

[01:34] start. Um, also like starting off on

[01:36] Reddit, you have zero credibility. So

[01:40] might be worth buying an account, which

[01:42] sounds like bad, but like um if you're

[01:45] trying to start off with a little bit of

[01:47] karma, it can give you a bit of a like

[01:49] starting point. Um,

[01:51] are you suggesting we HAVE

[01:56] NORTH SIDE, BABY. YEAH.

[02:01] GOT US. WE GOT

[02:06] 58.

[02:09] WELL, and so the other thing that I

[02:11] would mention on that is that

[02:13] the other thing I would mention on that

[02:14] is that like with Reddit, those [ __ ]

[02:17] are feral. Like straight up. If you go

[02:19] in there and you're like, "We're the

[02:21] best so and so," they're like, "Boo."

[02:24] They'll immediately downvote you.

[02:25] They're they're absolutely feral. Just

[02:28] savage,

[02:30] right?

[02:32] And it's just it's not something that

[02:34] you want to engage in. Like go in there,

[02:36] you know, like, hey, check this out or

[02:39] do an AMA. Be very very upfront that

[02:41] this is what it is and what it is not.

[02:44] And you'll have a lot a lot better

[02:46] success with credit. Anything else?

[02:48] Yeah.

[03:01] Not all at once.

[03:04] I got questions. You got one right

[03:06] there.

[03:06] You got one, man.

[03:13] Oh, this is question for Joy. I was just

[03:15] going to ask um the Reddit thing you

[03:17] were talking about using it from verbal

[03:19] patterns when you're looking to do

[03:23] the posts and the content and cleaning

[03:25] things up and and making additions to

[03:27] existing content uh instead of doing

[03:30] just the straight AI pages. How are you

[03:32] also really getting into the head of the

[03:34] Reddit user to determine that's

[03:35] indicative of the average pattern of how

[03:37] other people are thinking versus just

[03:39] one person who might think completely

[03:40] differently from the rest of the group?

[03:42] you do you batch other like Reddit posts

[03:44] to see if they have some sort of common

[03:45] themes, common presuppositions and that

[03:47] becomes the basis for any content

[03:49] upgrades or brand new content that you

[03:51] have written.

[03:57] Yeah. The content that you read on

[03:59] Reddit just that you're finding out and

[04:01] you say, "Okay, this is an this is a

[04:02] problem that people have." Is there but

[04:06] if I were to write a post I'm very

[04:08] grateful that the US economy is not

[04:10] based away on I think because I'm

[04:12] probably one goof in the corner but I

[04:14] don't want anyone to then start writing

[04:16] thinking that content needs to be

[04:17] written because I was the one who had

[04:18] the most articulate or inartic whatever

[04:20] the the the goal was. So, do you go

[04:23] through common themes over and over

[04:24] again and kind of find repeat patterns

[04:26] on Reddit and then that becomes either

[04:27] be basis of a persona or or the or the

[04:29] things that you decide to hit when you

[04:31] then create brand new content or create

[04:33] content to enhance an existing page.

[04:45] Yeah. No, I don't I don't think you'd

[04:47] have to be that thorough. Um, like I

[04:49] wouldn't be combing through like Reddit

[04:50] posts and things like that. Um, most of

[04:52] the time I don't even like look at

[04:53] Reddit. I just look at the sources for

[04:55] the AI overview. Um, generally and see

[04:58] what consensus that is.

[05:00] You can go sentiment analysis from

[05:02] Right.

[05:04] So I do like I got a lot of [ __ ] up,

[05:08] right? I have, you know, Reddit has a

[05:10] free API

[05:16] testing going on.

[05:20] And that's just part

[05:28] I got you brother.

[05:29] Yes sir. And then right between

[05:34] you have the social element as best as

[05:37] you can right.

[05:46] I can't tell you how happy it made this

[05:50] turtle.

[05:55] How scared was that?

[05:57] Super scary. I mean, this is

[06:00] for a while.

[06:03] It's not that scary.

[06:19] multiple tags,

[06:22] right? One is Gemini CLI, one is Brock,

[06:25] one is FL, one is [ __ ] another Gemini

[06:28] version, Doom, right? So, one terminal

[06:31] has multiple tabs and I'm going in, son

[06:34] in. And remember, data for SEO, most of

[06:37] the tools you're using, that's what they

[06:39] come and grab and charging you for, bro.

[06:42] Just go sign up. Don't be scared to pay

[06:44] the $100 minimum for the AI part. Don't

[06:47] be scared to pay the $100 a month for

[06:49] the backlink part and you off and

[06:51] running. [ __ ] all that other [ __ ] Build

[06:53] your own [ __ ] It's not that hard. And

[06:56] thank you. I want to just say this

[06:57] publicly, right? Thank you, KO. Thank

[07:00] you, Brian W. Thank you, Simon. And by

[07:03] the way, three of those that meet me in

[07:05] that same mastermind I was talking

[07:06] about. I learned so much from these

[07:08] guys. Even just lurking, they just say

[07:11] one thing. That's what you got to do

[07:12] with me, bro. Say one thing and I'm

[07:15] gone. That's what I'mma do. Open up a

[07:17] terminal, deep research, deep research.

[07:20] And now I'm study that subject in the

[07:22] depth like a [ __ ]

[07:25] Then open up another terminal, run, and

[07:27] it creates me something I give to my

[07:29] team. But me knowing it alone is

[07:32] useless.

[07:34] Brian, am I lying?

[07:37] If he gives me stuff and I go, "Hey,

[07:39] bro, look, just to make sure I'm about

[07:40] to give it to my team, this isn't this

[07:43] this is how it is." He goes, "Yes, I

[07:48] question. I got one." All right, there

[07:50] you go. Got a question.

[07:55] Brian with um Brian. So

[07:59] yeah, you talk about creating networks,

[08:02] you know, big network. There's a point

[08:04] where when you have a large network, you

[08:07] can use this at PBNs, you can just boost

[08:10] one new website, but the starting point

[08:13] is is difficult, you know, like the

[08:16] first website, what what do you

[08:18] recommend to boost it a bit? What kind

[08:20] of links you build? I I saw you you're

[08:22] in in the group you know you you shared

[08:24] a bit about um this this parasite is

[08:26] about books uh the guest um something

[08:30] for for books uh the authors there's a

[08:33] parasite for authors amazing um but what

[08:36] what else do you suggest for for

[08:38] boosting a bit your your your

[08:41] PBN or this network when you you don't

[08:44] have a lot

[08:49] all right So, if I'm starting a network

[08:52] right out of the gate, I usually do the

[08:54] WP WP multi-sight networks. Um, you pay

[08:57] for one domain and build out 800

[08:58] subdomains. Well, for that and if I want

[09:01] to start getting traffic, getting some

[09:02] activity to it right away. Obviously,

[09:04] you can start with a u invest domain

[09:07] that has some authority, some history

[09:08] behind it, has some backlinks, some

[09:10] traffic coming in. Great. starting from

[09:12] scratch, you're going to have to start

[09:14] using some of those, you know, what I

[09:16] call those catalyst content type

[09:17] techniques like the expert roundups and

[09:19] things like that. Start doing that. You

[09:21] have some experts come in, contribute

[09:23] it. I put in the um I say get a ton of

[09:27] traffic from guest post accepted type

[09:29] posts. I'll put a a table of every

[09:32] single search operative someone reviews

[09:35] the guest post of the niche that I'm

[09:36] going after. and I'll get 10, 15, 20

[09:39] requests a day for guest posts coming in

[09:41] and combing through the site looking at

[09:43] the type of post I have things like

[09:45] that. I am obviously, you know, taking

[09:47] advantage of social and credit and what

[09:49] else people are talking about to get

[09:51] traffic. But again, um, anything you can

[09:55] use that's going to generate media

[09:56] traffic and another big thing for that

[09:58] is, uh, directories. Add a directory to

[10:00] the site. I'm going to scrape uh scrape

[10:02] all the data I can put the uh the uh

[10:06] directory in here that's going to

[10:08] generate just a ton ton of traffic right

[10:10] out of the gate just from super low

[10:12] hanging fruit people searching for phone

[10:15] numbers and addresses personal names you

[10:17] know how many people have um you know

[10:19] Google alerts set up for their personal

[10:20] name their business name or something

[10:22] like that publishing a a directory

[10:24] listing for them and then leverage them

[10:26] for paid upgrades things like that or

[10:28] for them a a future post on the uh on

[10:30] the site So, there's a ton of little

[10:32] things that you can do to kind of get

[10:33] some traction right out of your paint

[10:35] and

[10:36] do them all at once and you'll do well.

[10:45] One of the things that I would add to

[10:46] that is like with if you're doing a

[10:49] multicight kind of like how Len's doing

[10:51] it or if you're doing that it doesn't

[10:52] need to be some shitty like looking you

[10:55] know just for links stuff. There's

[10:57] there's this line between

[11:00] just a we're going to throw it up for

[11:01] link equity or for for links and

[11:04] actually giving a [ __ ] right? And so if

[11:07] you air on the ladder of the two where

[11:09] you actually do feel like I'm doing

[11:11] this, I'm a journalist. I'm actually

[11:13] creating good content. You know, Winnham

[11:15] talks a lot about this where it's like

[11:16] expert roundups, right? His presentation

[11:18] expert roundups. you're going to look at

[11:20] maybe uh you know restaurant highlights

[11:24] in the area or feature businesses in the

[11:26] area. That's [ __ ] that an actual

[11:29] journalist would do, not just some

[11:31] random run-of-the-mill SEO, right? So it

[11:35] there there is an element of quality

[11:37] that kind of comes into it. Like I

[11:39] guarantee like most of the stuff like if

[11:40] you looked at when any of whom's network

[11:43] if you look at the if you look at any of

[11:44] Bradley Bennett stuff uh if you look at

[11:47] any of the people that actually care

[11:49] about their network and what they're

[11:51] actually leveraging for it it's going to

[11:53] look like a website. You're not going to

[11:55] know the difference between that versus

[11:58] you know you the New York Times kind of

[12:01] a thing. So it comes down to quality.

[12:10] want to go first.

[12:14] How many on the panel have PBN networks?

[12:18] Don't lie.

[12:20] Yeah. Uh, how many in the audience have

[12:23] PBN networks?

[12:26] How many would like to have them that

[12:29] don't have them?

[12:32] No. No. No.

[12:35] One. Two people.

[12:41] Okay, the first question is for the

[12:42] whole panel.

[12:44] It says, um,

[12:48] wait a minute.

[12:51] It's from Bernard. This is for the whole

[12:53] panel. I am a little confused. Do we use

[12:56] images generated on LLMs for SEO?

[13:01] Or if we do want to create images, we

[13:05] should use nano banana or do we not use

[13:09] any generated images? Please help me to

[13:12] understand.

[13:19] Well, for my local clients, we just get

[13:23] original images from them. And um and

[13:25] I've been training

[13:27] I've been uh training my lo trying to

[13:28] train my local clients to snap photos on

[13:31] every job like some of the others talked

[13:33] about Simon as well to snap photos, take

[13:36] quick videos, all that kind of stuff.

[13:37] And so we always use their images. Um I

[13:40] have a library of images that I've taken

[13:42] from screenshots from tree service

[13:44] videos and that kind of stuff that we

[13:45] use for campaigns that where the client

[13:47] does not provide the enough photos. So

[13:49] we've built over the years working with

[13:51] tree guys. We got a massive library and

[13:53] we've manipulated images so that they

[13:54] appear to be unique, you know, all that

[13:56] kind of stuff. So, I don't typically use

[13:58] AI generated images for client work,

[14:00] just to be clear. Um,

[14:02] I'm glad seeing Joyy's Joyy's

[14:04] presentation today, it makes sense that

[14:06] I I'm glad I didn't. So,

[14:10] so there's a couple different ways that

[14:12] I would approach it. Ideally, what I'm

[14:14] going to look for is

[14:16] unique client images and that like it's

[14:20] kind of a good, better, best situation,

[14:22] right? So, best situation is going to be

[14:25] client their team's on it. They're

[14:27] snapping photos daily, showing jobs, the

[14:31] actual business that they're doing.

[14:33] Hands down, that's going to be the best

[14:34] way to do it. Second best way would be

[14:37] like the YouTube kind of approach, AI

[14:39] thing. The again the thing that that I

[14:41] am aware of with Google Nano Banana is

[14:43] they use what's called synth ID which is

[14:45] actually embedded it's like a pixelation

[14:49] actually watermarked in the image. So

[14:51] it's not just the little Gemini logo but

[14:54] it's actually embedded within the image

[14:56] so they can identify if it was created

[14:58] by AI. Um not all of the AI uh image

[15:02] generation company or not all image

[15:04] generation via AI is using this

[15:06] technology but I know Google is for

[15:08] sure. So air on the side of caution with

[15:12] that right if a client can't do that

[15:13] then go banana you create the AI

[15:16] generated images be aware that there is

[15:20] both risk and reward with that absolute

[15:22] worst case one and do not use this is

[15:27] make sure that it does not have a

[15:28] watermark. There's a whole other

[15:30] presentation on that alone, but I can

[15:32] tell you if it has watermarked or if

[15:35] there are other things embedded within

[15:37] the the image that can be unbelievably

[15:40] problematic for your business.

[15:43] or delete.

[15:50] Uh so the only thing that we use AI

[15:52] images for is like infographic kind of

[15:54] style things where it's like a chart or

[15:56] a graph or something like that for

[15:58] anything that's like a garage door, a

[16:00] lawn, a roof, whatever. Um we completely

[16:03] stopped using AI images because we saw

[16:05] the ranking benefit gains we were

[16:07] getting from them just reversed.

[16:14] I echo.

[16:21] Yeah. Asking clients to to take images.

[16:25] Yeah. If they could all day long,

[16:26] everyone's saying the same thing. Do

[16:28] they? No. If you have now in niches like

[16:33] I do a lot of white label for dentists.

[16:36] You can't really use an AI image. Uh

[16:39] then you have like who's this person?

[16:40] they don't work here. So what we do is

[16:42] we try to we send in a professional

[16:44] photographer and they'll take real

[16:46] images with the dentist and the staff

[16:48] now staff turns over then you have old

[16:52] images but I think for those things

[16:55] where you're looking to create trust

[16:57] where you have say your money your life

[16:59] you do need real images there and use AI

[17:02] images sparingly but for things like say

[17:05] plumbing I mean how how how

[17:09] well can you make an image should say

[17:11] toilet repair. I mean, come on. You got

[17:13] a toilet. You got some guys like with a

[17:15] wrench. And there's there's only so much

[17:18] you can do with it. But I I do like to

[17:20] use them because I can I can get the

[17:22] right entities in there versus some guy

[17:25] thinking, "Oh, this is this is good

[17:27] enough." It's not good enough. Sometimes

[17:29] I need to have the right entities in my

[17:30] image. Yeah. If if clients can take

[17:32] them, great. Then my job is easy. But it

[17:35] doesn't work like that in real life.

[17:47] I I think it's also purpose, right? Like

[17:49] it it's the age-old SEO answer of it

[17:52] depends, right? So if you're looking at

[17:56] a GMBB,

[17:58] absolutely they need to be high quality.

[18:00] They need to do that. As Marita was

[18:02] mentioning earlier, you also need to run

[18:03] it through uh cloud the vision AI. You

[18:07] want to double check that because if if

[18:09] it's identified as racy, uh, violent,

[18:12] anything like that, I've seen GMBB posts

[18:15] can immediately get flagged for that.

[18:18] Now, if you're using it on Facebook,

[18:19] Instagram, Pinterest, any of that kind

[18:21] of stuff, it's a different scenario,

[18:24] right? We don't necessarily need the

[18:26] highest quality images there. You can

[18:27] get away with like infographics, things

[18:29] like that, but it's right tool, right

[18:31] job.

[18:35] One one thing I'll add is I love

[18:38] infographics that they're really good.

[18:40] They really I think you mentioned that,

[18:41] didn't you, George? Yeah, they're really

[18:43] good, but I mean I used to someone used

[18:45] to pay I used to charge like 100 bucks

[18:48] for an infographic. I'm cheap and I'm

[18:49] lazy. So I I don't do that anymore. The

[18:53] uh GMBBS are good for like I say images

[18:56] of where you are and you can't recreate

[18:59] those in AI. The other thing I do which

[19:02] I didn't cover in the presentation when

[19:03] I have an image created with the AI I

[19:06] need to resize it rename it and add

[19:08] maybe add a logo to the corner and I

[19:10] think by doing that when I'm

[19:11] regenerating doesn't that BK doesn't

[19:13] kind of remove that watermark.

[19:18] Okay. So it's a visual watermark even

[19:26] cool.

[19:43] And for me, same as everyone else. For

[19:45] clients, I push for their stuff. Um, for

[19:48] social, for my affiliate stuff, for my

[19:50] networks, I just send it. Let it rip.

[19:53] All AI stuff, who cares?

[19:56] No way.

[20:02] Simon, what other resources can you

[20:04] recommend to get better context to

[20:07] understand your actual presentation?

[20:18] You want the funny answer, the long

[20:20] answer, the short answer.

[20:22] What what's what specifically they

[20:25] looking at? Give me one thing.

[20:31] Okay. I think the best answer is just

[20:33] reach out to me. I'm very approachable.

[20:36] I'm open book most of the time. Just

[20:39] just reach out and and ask me. But

[20:41] resources for understanding. Let's see

[20:44] what might they have asked

[20:46] about.

[20:50] Let me ask the audience here. What was

[20:51] the hardest part of my presentation for

[20:54] you to understand

[20:56] besides my accent?

[21:13] Yeah, I I just start asking questions.

[21:16] Like I said in the presentation, the

[21:18] only question you don't that there are

[21:20] no stupid questions except the ones you

[21:21] don't ask. Like just we've all done

[21:24] that, right?

[21:26] Uh for if it was coding, I mean there's

[21:29] a bunch of coding videos out there. Just

[21:32] look on YouTube like AI coding. There's

[21:34] a million out there. If it's what else

[21:41] entities on the image?

[21:45] Yeah, Nester was saying like entities on

[21:47] the images and entities basically like

[21:48] I'm looking at here. We got cups,

[21:50] phones, backpacks, computers, half eaten

[21:52] bagel. I say you did not eat your bagel.

[21:57] Okay.

[22:02] I'm Australian.

[22:05] What does it mean to build?

[22:10] Okay. I So I I have my my websites I'm

[22:13] doing now are based on WordPress. So the

[22:16] word WordPress core then I just use like

[22:20] say Claude or Gemini or whoever to

[22:22] create the HTML goes in the page itself.

[22:26] That makes sense. like P tags, divs,

[22:28] sections,

[22:30] lists, tables, that type of thing. All

[22:33] all the HTML elements.

[22:37] Yeah,

[22:38] exactly. Yeah, text editor. Yeah, text

[22:41] editor and then into the code tab and

[22:43] then just paste everything in there,

[22:44] baby. Or if you're lazy like me, you

[22:46] just cover using the the um uh JSON,

[22:49] what's it called? REST API. Thank you.

[22:52] REST API, push it in there, use an

[22:54] application, a WordPress user

[22:56] application password, and you're in

[22:58] you're Yeah. And it's like easy peasy,

[23:02] easy peasy lemon squeezy.

[23:06] Does that help, mate?

[23:12] That was a banger.

[23:18] Oh, so the qu yeah yeah the question was

[23:21] bu building how do I use how do I build

[23:24] pages inside websites is it pure HTML no

[23:27] I in my my preference right now is I'm

[23:30] using WordPress as the underlying

[23:32] platform just basic WordPress core no

[23:35] theme and I'm going into the code editor

[23:38] of like you basically say post create a

[23:40] new post go to the code tab and paste

[23:43] everything in

[23:57] diggity, mate.

[23:59] Good.

[24:00] Okay. Okay. Good. Uh, good day. What did

[24:03] they say down there? It's funny. I have

[24:06] some a banging. No, it's funny. I have

[24:10] some Australian clients and we used to

[24:13] have our our VAS that would write they

[24:15] were Filipinos I think they wrote

[24:17] American English like no no no they

[24:19] speak proper English over there.

[24:25] Good. Good on you, Bruce or Sheila.

[24:38] Yo, for anybody that does, I got a

[24:40] question.

[24:43] So, for anybody that does schema, right,

[24:45] what do you think is the most powerful

[24:47] or important schema link part of it?

[24:49] Known as, same as, something else. I

[24:51] don't want to throw any nuggets out. But

[24:53] I want you to drop it out. Huh?

[24:57] Guys, anybody?

[25:00] So, I'm not I'm not I'm not a schema

[25:02] person, I should just say. Um, but the

[25:04] one type of schema that we actually do

[25:06] is product schema because it's the only

[25:07] one that gets you gold stars. That's all

[25:09] I really care about with schema.

[25:14] I do reviews. So, I've got all my

[25:17] reviews in there. And the thing they

[25:18] reviewed is typically it could be a

[25:20] product but typically they review the

[25:22] business. So but in my in my when I

[25:25] download all the reviews I'll create the

[25:28] reviews and they will be it's okay

[25:31] and they'll have all the review markup

[25:33] in there. So if I need to import them

[25:35] with a short code they're already in

[25:36] there get marked up. So I like review

[25:38] schema which and it shows up in search

[25:41] console too right?

[25:44] Don't fast

[25:47] I'm forcing answers.

[25:50] So what I've had a lot of success lately

[25:52] with is um basically creating like micro

[25:55] entity silos on my different sites for

[25:57] different um different things and using

[25:59] the link roll link relationship schema

[26:00] and just tying everything together.

[26:02] Link ro and link relationship schema.

[26:05] Yeah. And just making sure all my uh my

[26:08] uh you know my money pages, my

[26:09] supporting pages are all tied together

[26:11] understood that way within the schema.

[26:18] So, Neestor, I do like webpage, but

[26:22] because you can get really versatile

[26:24] with it. Um, significant links, the

[26:27] significant link is really good. I like

[26:29] that one.

[26:30] Um, with web page, you can also go in

[26:33] and it's basically like you're designing

[26:35] a web page. You can say like here's

[26:36] event schema, here's all this other

[26:37] stuff. Um, is it necessary in all cases?

[26:41] No. But if if I need that extra little

[26:43] edge, I mean, Lita and I we talked

[26:45] about, you know, you don't bring a

[26:46] bazooka to a knife fight. You go in and

[26:48] escalate.

[26:51] Yeah.

[26:58] Yeah. No, I like that one. Um there

[27:00] there have been cases we did we did

[27:02] webpage schema with marked up with event

[27:04] schema and stuff like that and I

[27:06] actually took over an event there in

[27:08] knowledge camp.

[27:10] So

[27:12] all right mine is the ID page strategy.

[27:15] Been messing with that for seven years

[27:17] now since 2019 since since 2019. And

[27:20] that uh and local business scheme well

[27:22] you'll see the ad ID field in many

[27:24] different schema types. But the way that

[27:25] we manipulate that for local business or

[27:28] organization. So I look at the knowledge

[27:30] graph is two ways. There's a brand

[27:31] knowledge graph which is kind of

[27:32] location neutral and then for each

[27:34] individual physical location there's a

[27:36] branded location knowledge graph. And so

[27:38] we can influence that through that ad ID

[27:41] designation if there's a dedicated

[27:42] resource there which is specifically for

[27:44] URI unique resource identifier where my

[27:47] concept at least my methodology is we go

[27:50] extract all the page URLs that we've

[27:51] created some that are indexed some that

[27:53] haven't been discovered yet anything

[27:55] that has accurate information published

[27:56] about that business is a citation right

[27:58] that's what it is so we consolidate all

[28:00] those citations into an ID page that

[28:03] then we designate the dedicated ID page

[28:04] URL and the ad ID field of the local

[28:06] business schema

[28:07] You can do that at a brand level too an

[28:09] organization schema and that just is it

[28:11] becomes an entity of where everything's

[28:12] tied together all the supporting assets

[28:14] anything that corroborates name address

[28:16] phone number website or some combination

[28:18] of those four data points so and then

[28:20] that ID page becomes a link building

[28:21] target right so you fill it with like

[28:23] press releases are fantastic for that

[28:24] you hit it with brand anchors first then

[28:26] you get and we host our ID pages on

[28:28] Amazon S3 bucket I typically don't give

[28:30] a [ __ ] about domain authority but in

[28:32] this case you've got incredibly high

[28:34] domain authority and so you can be a lot

[28:36] more aggressive with link velocity,

[28:38] keyword anchor text, especially once you

[28:39] have that pillow base layer of branded

[28:41] anchors. So, I've been using the ID page

[28:43] strategy for seven years and I love it.

[28:44] It still works.

[28:48] Yeah. So, it's it's almost it's you know

[28:49] kind of an iframe stack as well in

[28:51] addition to referencing all of the uh

[28:53] page URLs that have accurate information

[28:54] published about the the business NAPW or

[28:56] some combination of those. Uh we'll by

[28:59] the way Google Sheets we take put column

[29:01] A all the keywords or algorithm trigger

[29:04] words. I hate the word keyword anymore.

[29:05] I really do. algorithm trigger words uh

[29:07] in column A, column B, we'll put all

[29:09] those page URLs, post URLs, whatever,

[29:11] citations, press releases, all that. And

[29:13] then in column C, we use a concatenate

[29:15] formula. Took me forever to learn how to

[29:16] pronounce that, remember?

[29:18] Like I'm so proud of the fact I can say

[29:19] that word now. Uh but concatenate

[29:22] formula, right? So it converts it to all

[29:24] those keywords to the an the URLs. So

[29:27] anchor text, we hide the first two

[29:28] columns. We publish the Geek Gravity

[29:30] embed code that goes in the Gsheet. and

[29:32] any of the main assets like the money

[29:34] site if it's embeddible we'll embed that

[29:36] uh Google business profile map um

[29:38] citation vault if you're using that

[29:39] press advantage organization page we do

[29:41] all that kind of stuff an iframe stack

[29:43] as well is just an entity resource for

[29:45] any of the branded or supporting assets

[29:47] that support or corroborate that branded

[29:49] business locations information does that

[29:51] make sense

[29:52] just just for the record

[29:55] this as well this is where this is one

[29:57] of the first places I

[30:00] Yeah, that's a fact. Repeat that [ __ ]

[30:02] again, bro. You know, like I'm watching

[30:04] him talk and I'm like I'm like why

[30:08] my man like you know and I told me the

[30:11] text that link this dude is a brainiac

[30:13] bro listen

[30:17] what

[30:19] here you go Simon yo listen just a quick

[30:22] question just say yes or no and then

[30:23] negative effect or no you ever tried

[30:25] significantly CB

[30:29] no Yes. Yeah. What kind of effect? Yay.

[30:32] Your name.

[30:35] So, yay. You ever tried that? You ever

[30:36] tried that? Tried that name.

[30:52] The one that you don't.

[30:54] Yeah, the one you don't build next to

[31:01] seriousity.

[31:14] Yeah. So, don't link to your C map URL.

[31:17] I still see SEOs do that sometimes. not

[31:18] near as much as we used to. By the way,

[31:20] I used to spam the [ __ ] out of them,

[31:21] too. So, you know, we all did, but uh at

[31:24] some point it became a spam signal and

[31:26] it's uh Chris uh Palmer did a bunch of

[31:28] testing on this as well. And there's a

[31:30] threshold and so it usually takes a

[31:32] certain volume of links to do it, but I

[31:33] say just don't do it unless you know

[31:35] what the hell you're doing and it's very

[31:36] strategic. So, for example, in an ID

[31:38] page, I link to the the CI map URL

[31:40] because again, that's an entity stack.

[31:42] That's a machine readable ID, right? So,

[31:44] all that I put that in there as well. on

[31:46] has hazmap. I always reference the C map

[31:48] URL and hazmap uh attributes all that.

[31:50] So, but just don't just don't spam it

[31:52] like and I recommend just don't build

[31:54] links to it. If you're going to build

[31:55] links to the Google map, do a share URL.

[31:56] It's a natural looking link profile.

[31:58] Yes, you're not pushing link equity in

[31:59] the map. Who cares? It's a natural

[32:01] looking link profile. Brand [ __ ]

[32:03] private, bro. Remember when I sent you

[32:04] one on my joints and you sent me a

[32:06] message like HOW THE [ __ ] YOU GOT TO

[32:08] TRUST FLOW 40

[32:11] ON your share URL, bro? Uh, and and it

[32:16] was it was it was a it was you fixed it.

[32:19] You helped me fix it. It was a little

[32:20] bad, but yo, that [ __ ] had that [ __ ]

[32:22] ranking gang busters. Uh,

[32:24] oh, Simon, you had something.

[32:26] Yeah, you're asking for the property and

[32:28] schema. So, if you go look up additional

[32:30] property

[32:31] and you got some creativity,

[32:36] knows what I'm talking about here. So,

[32:38] all the signals and everything I had in

[32:40] the presentation, which I didn't share

[32:42] today, but it's in there. all these

[32:43] signals like years in business, you can

[32:46] put that in there, too. Or your your

[32:47] license number, things like that.

[32:49] Everything that you have a real business

[32:51] would have, put it in there. Make up

[32:53] your own property.

[32:55] If if a machine can read it, it's going

[32:58] to assume what that is. Years in

[33:00] business, years dash in dash business.

[33:04] Okay. Right. Just do it. Don't don't

[33:06] overthink it. Put everything in there

[33:08] that would make sense to real business.

[33:10] I have a question.

[33:14] I want to say something

[33:16] about I've been trying to tell people

[33:19] for quite a while. [ __ ] all that keyword

[33:21] [ __ ] Talk to me about keyword and then

[33:24] for a while we've been on entities and

[33:26] even that you need entities gradually

[33:28] like understand where we are. So that

[33:31] like that's the basis for us at this

[33:32] point basis

[33:35] services.

[33:37] So a PI is right. I do some whitening

[33:41] send. So the agency selling to PI

[33:44] attorneys, hey, send me five services. I

[33:47] tell them they send me one service.

[33:51] One service fraud with the GO with the

[33:55] GO. Well, I said send me five services.

[33:59] Not one service or five variations.

[34:01] Right? So what I mean personal injury,

[34:04] motorcycle,

[34:07] slip and fall, wrongful death, right? So

[34:10] what I want to uh act because you work

[34:12] with a lot of PIs, right? Is or is I'm

[34:15] not what I'm saying factual like

[34:17] personal injury attorney. That's it

[34:20] brings the money and that's what they

[34:21] all want for sure, right? This in that

[34:23] niche that's the vanity keyword. The

[34:26] money is in the truck accident attorney

[34:31] Geo because the truck accident pays. Am

[34:34] I right or am I wrong?

[34:38] No, I I think they're both important. So

[34:40] like whether personal your question was

[34:42] whether personal injury attorney Las

[34:44] Vegas is just as important as like truck

[34:45] accident lawyer, slip and fall lawyer. I

[34:47] think they're all important. So I would

[34:49] go for all of them. Um were you talking

[34:50] about like when you say services you're

[34:52] talking about like in the GBP itself?

[34:53] So, like for instance, if let's say I'm

[34:57] like, "Hey, you're like Marino, I need

[34:58] you some help with this, you know, you

[35:00] miss it, right?" And I'm like, "All

[35:01] right, send the services over." What

[35:03] would you send over?

[35:04] Yeah. So, we we usually ask them, I'm

[35:06] like, "Do you take dog bite cases? Do

[35:07] you take slip and fall cases?" Because

[35:09] what I've found with specifically with

[35:11] personal injury attorneys, there's a

[35:12] good chunk of them that don't actually

[35:13] want certain cases. We have like this

[35:16] one client that they get so much traffic

[35:18] for slip and falls, their Walmart slip

[35:19] and fall page is like wild. They don't

[35:22] want them. They're like, "These are

[35:23] crappy cases."

[35:25] Yeah.

[35:26] Yeah. So, it depends on, but all of them

[35:28] want car accidents. All of them want

[35:29] trucks. All of them want drunk driving.

[35:31] So, we we usually will map out like all

[35:34] of those. Drunk driving is a good one.

[35:36] Um,

[35:37] yes. Uber. Uber accidents.

[35:40] Well, we're going even beyond Uber now.

[35:42] There's all the other like I forget some

[35:43] of the names of them, but there's other

[35:44] Yeah. Well, Lift and there's another big

[35:46] one that's like starting up. Yeah, maybe

[35:48] that's it. Um, so we're starting to like

[35:51] create pages for those as well. So yeah,

[35:52] target all of it.

[35:54] Okay, I just, you know, want to go for

[35:55] one, you bring up a really good

[35:58] you bring up a really good point about

[36:00] asking the client. I mean, this just

[36:01] comes down to due diligence, right? Like

[36:03] you ask the client if they don't want

[36:05] dog bite. Like why why would you put in

[36:08] time and effort into, you know, oh,

[36:10] we've got to do this entire topical map.

[36:12] We've got to do all this. They don't

[36:14] want that. What they want is this, this,

[36:16] and this. This is what actually drives

[36:18] money. It may be that they're actually

[36:20] set up to do dog biting. Maybe that's

[36:21] what they want because they they're

[36:22] like, "Dude, it's a slam dunk for us.

[36:24] Super easy. We've got it figured out."

[36:27] That's like, "We are the dog pie

[36:28] company." Like, understand what the

[36:31] client needs because it's not it's not

[36:32] as cookie cutter. And that's where a lot

[36:34] of larger agencies I see tend to fail is

[36:37] that they try this one-sizefits-all

[36:38] like, "Oh, you're a PI attorney. We're

[36:40] going to do this and this and this." And

[36:42] it's like, "No, [ __ ] listen.

[36:44] Listen to the client. What do they want?

[36:46] What do they need? What are they set up

[36:47] for?" So, a question we started asking

[36:49] our clients too is can you break down

[36:51] the percentage of revenue by service?

[36:53] Can't even tell you.

[36:55] Who's in my real quick?

[36:57] Bro, you just joined so you didn't hear.

[36:59] Y'all know right everything they saying,

[37:01] right? Everything, right? I just just

[37:05] Sorry. Sorry.

[37:06] We We had a pest control client and we

[37:08] were like creating stuff for I don't

[37:10] even remember like mosquitoes and things

[37:12] they didn't care about and they were

[37:13] like, "Oh yeah, like 40% of our business

[37:15] comes from sugar ants." We're like, we

[37:17] haven't even done a single thing for

[37:18] ants or anything related to ants on your

[37:20] website. So, like after that, we were

[37:22] like, okay, we're going to start like

[37:24] asking clients upfront what services

[37:26] specifically they get the revenue from

[37:27] and we ask them for percentages. So,

[37:29] when they tell me 80% of their cases

[37:31] come from car accidents, okay, that's

[37:33] our focus.

[37:37] Something else in auditing a lot of

[37:39] white labor as a white label I audit and

[37:41] review a lot of sites and I see a lot of

[37:44] times in attorney niche which we got a

[37:45] lot of that our three biggest industries

[37:47] are legal mostly personal injury

[37:49] dentists health in general but dentists

[37:51] and then home services all types and uh

[37:54] with especially with attorney sites I

[37:56] don't know why so many local um you know

[37:58] u SEO agencies marketing firms that work

[38:01] specifically with attorneys they

[38:02] overoptimize the [ __ ] out of their sites

[38:04] and like the homepage will be optimized

[38:06] for personal injury attorney. Then they

[38:07] have personal injury services page that

[38:09] then introduces all the individual case

[38:11] types. Then, you know, and it's just

[38:13] this so much redundancy and duplication.

[38:15] It's unbelievable. I mean, we're talking

[38:17] about oftentimes, you know, personal

[38:18] injury attorney sites you'll see with,

[38:20] you know, 1,200, 1500 pages on the site

[38:22] because it's not just about the uh case

[38:25] type plus the service, the location that

[38:27] they're trying to rank for. So, they got

[38:28] a page for every case type times every

[38:30] city that they're trying to get exposure

[38:32] for. But then they got blog posts, 300

[38:34] blog posts, you know, for each, you

[38:36] know, variation of each phrase. Just old

[38:38] school SEO tactics. I still see a lot of

[38:40] that. And I see like again site

[38:42] efficiency. In my opinion, the two most

[38:43] important things in local search are

[38:44] branded location authority number one.

[38:45] Number two is site efficiency. So again,

[38:47] having a site make clean structure, free

[38:50] from technical SEO errors or points of

[38:51] crawl resistance, um lean, efficient,

[38:55] easy to easy to parse, all of that. Just

[38:57] those two things are the most important

[38:58] thing in local search. And then

[38:59] engagement, but that's an off- page

[39:00] thing. yourself.

[39:02] I want to piggy back on something said

[39:03] real quick. Right. Ask the clients what

[39:06] she said. Exactly. Right. And then also

[39:08] another one I like to ask is, you know,

[39:11] because one one service might make them

[39:14] one one service might make them the most

[39:16] revenue, right? But there might be

[39:17] another service that's what keeps the

[39:18] bills going and keeps the crews working

[39:20] so that they don't lose crews,

[39:22] especially during seasonal work, right?

[39:25] So when you onboard a client, like add

[39:27] that on, bro. What services do you

[39:28] offer? What brings the most ROI? What

[39:30] percentage? Just what she said, right?

[39:32] And then also, okay, what service too?

[39:34] Okay, now another question. What do you

[39:36] get the most of? What's the volume?

[39:37] Like, so if you're doing inspections,

[39:39] multiple a day, every day, you know,

[39:42] that's that's the bread and the butter,

[39:44] right? The new installs is the cherry on

[39:46] top of that pie.

[39:49] Okay, this question says, first of all,

[39:52] thank you for all you do for this

[39:54] community. This is again for each of

[39:56] them. Do you use parasites? If so, which

[40:00] is your favorite? If you do not use

[40:02] parasites, why don't you use them? Thank

[40:05] you all again and the whole rock stars

[40:07] team and administration.

[40:10] You can start.

[40:11] Sure.

[40:12] Yes, I use parasites. Uh, always have,

[40:15] always will. Well, not don't say always

[40:17] will, but we'll probably most likely

[40:19] most likely.

[40:21] U, but I mean I started my whole SEO

[40:23] business on if networks, which is just

[40:25] parasite SEO. That's all it is, you

[40:27] know, and it's that's never stopped. So,

[40:29] uh, my favorite is the ID page, but I

[40:31] can consider that an entity asset, even

[40:32] though it could also be parasite SEO,

[40:35] uh, or in the Google site, Google site,

[40:36] you know, I still use the hell out of

[40:38] Google sites, Google stacks, all that

[40:39] kind of stuff. It's never, in my

[40:41] opinion, it's still a very kind of

[40:43] foundational thing. And so, Google sites

[40:45] are probably my favorite.

[40:47] I think parasites just such a it's

[40:49] almost like PPC. It's like this dirty

[40:51] word, right? However, it depends on who

[40:53] you're talking to. If you're if you're

[40:54] talking to someone that is

[40:56] foundationally like wanting to, you

[40:58] know, make it sound clean and all this,

[41:01] it's branded. It's a branded property,

[41:05] right? Your Facebook, your LinkedIn, all

[41:07] this [ __ ] This is again stuff that a

[41:09] normal business would go out and create.

[41:12] So, you know, parasite, it's kind of

[41:14] like it's this nuance that people try

[41:17] and like throw it in like you're doing

[41:18] something edgy or something like this.

[41:20] it all it is is it's promoting your

[41:22] properties, promoting your entities,

[41:25] making it so that people know who you

[41:27] are, what you do, where you do it.

[41:29] Oftentimes, we'll give the example of

[41:30] Jello, right? Where it doesn't matter if

[41:33] it's name brand Jell-O, some weird

[41:36] [ __ ] off-brand jell-o, or you know,

[41:39] the dollar store Jell-O, doesn't matter.

[41:41] Any kind of gelatin dessert, people

[41:43] refer to as Jell-O. That is my endgame

[41:45] with every client. I want you to be the

[41:47] de facto entity. When someone says, "I'm

[41:50] looking for Water Damage Repair Miami."

[41:53] Oh yeah, [ __ ] It's this guy. Like they

[41:55] own that. Like they are the company that

[41:57] does that at the end of the day. Like

[41:59] yes, I I use if you want to call it a

[42:01] parasite, sure. It's brand though and

[42:05] it's reinforcement of those brands.

[42:10] Uh, I hate the word parasite, but we uh

[42:13] we we definitely started redistributing

[42:14] our own content, like basically a repeat

[42:16] of our blog posts and things. Uh, about

[42:19] two years ago, we started doing it for

[42:21] ourselves. We don't really do it for

[42:22] clients yet. We're kind of

[42:23] experimenting. I've seen it backfire

[42:25] where all of a sudden the thing will

[42:27] actually filter out the client's site.

[42:29] So, I'm a little hesitant to go like

[42:31] really hard on it for clients. But for

[42:33] us, uh, we were doing Twitter articles,

[42:35] LinkedIn, and Reddit. uh long form

[42:38] content really doesn't work well on

[42:39] Reddit. So, we stopped doing that. So,

[42:41] LinkedIn is the only one I think that we

[42:42] are still currently doing that actually

[42:44] really works well, especially if you

[42:46] have a LinkedIn newsletter. Those things

[42:48] are like wildfire. Um I don't know how

[42:50] they get subscribers, but they do. So,

[42:53] LinkedIn newsletters are really good.

[42:54] Oh, quick question. The post you're

[42:56] making, you got LinkedIn Pulse or just

[42:58] regular

[42:59] Pulse. Yeah, we're using Pulse.

[43:02] LinkedIn pulse.

[43:07] Also, if you

[43:08] Yeah, tell them tell them. I already

[43:09] know what you're about to say, bro.

[43:10] Learn some game, bro.

[43:12] Queen nugget.

[43:13] So, you can you can use Facebook. The

[43:15] public groups work just fine like that

[43:16] as well. The other thing you can look at

[43:18] is like, how many of you guys actually

[43:19] have a Mailchimp account? Aside from

[43:22] your email list or any of that,

[43:25] Mailchimp gives you a publicly indexable

[43:27] URL. Why the [ __ ] wouldn't you use it?

[43:30] You do a secondary newsletter, post it

[43:32] out there, be like, "Hey, guess what? If

[43:34] you're using high level, if you're

[43:35] using, you know, any of these other CRM,

[43:38] HubSpot, whatever, have the Mailchimp

[43:40] thing. It gets indexed. It's made by in

[43:42] it, right? It's got trust. It's got

[43:43] authority. You put that, it indexes,

[43:46] works just great. It's an additional

[43:47] brand extension. You take all of the

[43:50] like if anyone signs up, great. Take

[43:52] that, export the list, they're your

[43:54] subscribers, put them into your CRM, and

[43:56] you're good to go. So, it's just again,

[43:58] it's an extension. Now, if you want to

[44:00] call it a parasite, sure, whatever. But

[44:02] like it's it's an extension of the

[44:05] brand.

[44:10] Yeah. What we're saying here, I think

[44:12] everyone's saying the same thing.

[44:13] Parasite blah blah blah. It's it's brand

[44:16] mentions. Who you are, what you do, and

[44:20] why you do it. Exactly.

[44:22] Yeah. So, I I'll do I like to do press

[44:26] releases. I like press releases because

[44:28] I can show a client. Hey, look, you I

[44:31] did one for a for let's call it plumber

[44:35] and plumber Dallas and I I made I ranked

[44:38] him for the best plumber in Dallas for

[44:40] 2025 and it ranked on page one and it

[44:44] was shown up in AIS and guess what? I

[44:46] took all the reviews from his GMBB GBP

[44:49] whatever and I fed it into chat

[44:52] GPTclaude and say write me up a press

[44:54] release. Here's the reviews. So the

[44:57] press release come up with here's what

[44:59] people are saying about ABC plumbing in

[45:01] Dallas. And so then he got the quote

[45:05] unquote best plumber of Dallas County

[45:07] for 2025 as reviewed by 500 people in

[45:11] Dallas County. Well, guess what? Who

[45:13] those 500 people were? Their clients. So

[45:18] I showed it to him goes, "Whoa, I won an

[45:20] award. Yeah, you showing up in AI

[45:22] overview." Whoa. That's amazing. How did

[45:25] that happen? That's what you're paying

[45:26] me for. Like, so I love that. AI AIO's

[45:32] are picking up press releases a a lot.

[45:35] Yeah. So, don't don't sleep on those.

[45:38] There's there's several platforms. I'm

[45:40] not going to share the one that I use a

[45:41] lot of. My friend over here, he will

[45:44] kill me.

[45:44] Yeah.

[45:44] And then there's some stuff that if

[45:47] you're not in Molino's group, I can't

[45:48] tell you where we put stuff, but he will

[45:51] tell you where to put stuff. And where's

[45:53] Sean over there? He puts stuff up there

[45:55] a lot, too. So, secret stuff that unless

[45:57] you're in Mike's group, do that. Some

[46:00] some Google stacks from Bradley. Uh, in

[46:03] fact, I've got two in my wallet I need

[46:04] to use. So, I need to do that. Um, press

[46:08] releases, social. That's pretty much it.

[46:11] Hey, so, you just dropped a [ __ ]

[46:14] super nugget.

[46:16] And I know

[46:18] he just dropped a [ __ ] nugget, bro.

[46:20] the same way you could create any type

[46:21] of website you want a directory etc.

[46:23] right? You know those are fake award

[46:26] directory sites or if you add that into

[46:29] a directory site because I get emails

[46:31] like that all day long. You won this

[46:33] award. You know, it's a way to get in

[46:35] the door. But if you control it and do

[46:38] it the right way, SEOed, right? Them

[46:40] things show up all the time because

[46:41] you're doing what? Listicles and round

[46:43] and everything. Win them and everybody

[46:45] broke into super nugget, bro. Because

[46:47] that [ __ ] works killer.

[46:51] So, what I've been having a lot of

[46:53] success with lately is uh Twitterx,

[46:57] uh, Blue Sky, and threads, just threaded

[47:00] posts, just powering up my my money

[47:03] sites, my posts, and everything else.

[47:05] Run like a, uh, a 10 tweet thread, uh,

[47:07] explaining what the post is, related

[47:09] hashtags, and things like that. So,

[47:11] that's been really successful getting

[47:12] eyeballs on on the content I want to get

[47:14] eyeballs on. The other thing that's

[47:17] working well is Bing loves press

[47:20] releases. That's why I build my own

[47:21] press release networks. And what

[47:23] everyone's sleeping on is they also

[47:24] [ __ ] love wiki sites. I build out my

[47:27] own wiki sites and just drop some onto,

[47:31] you know, some entity ontologies and all

[47:32] my clients and everything else. Build

[47:34] out the pages on wiki sites and they own

[47:36] me. They love them. If you don't have a

[47:39] weekly data

[47:41] a week data page for each of your

[47:43] clients or and crunch base minimum

[47:48] crunch base and we data two links that

[47:51] like

[47:53] so I'm not sure if any of you guys had

[47:56] ever done this but X or before it became

[47:58] X Twitter they used to do these things

[48:00] called Twitter chats. Have any of you

[48:02] guys partaken in any of those? My

[48:04] backlink profile previously probably had

[48:07] 20 to 30% links from Semrush

[48:12] directly to me through Twitter chats.

[48:14] I'm going to like this is a strategy

[48:16] that we've used never went away. They're

[48:18] fanfucking. But what you do is you

[48:20] schedule one of these like it's

[48:22] basically a Twitter storm. Question

[48:25] answer, question answer question answer.

[48:26] You send it out to people ahead of time.

[48:29] You schedule it out. Hey, Monday at

[48:32] 11:00 am Central time. this is what

[48:33] we're going to do. Here's the question

[48:35] answer format and it's basically people

[48:38] on Twitter that just mob this [ __ ] So

[48:41] it's this question answer question

[48:42] answer. Again you can take that you can

[48:44] take those tweets embed them into your

[48:47] website. Now you're getting the two for

[48:49] one kind of thing. You're getting your

[48:52] Twitter bonus. You've got it on your

[48:54] website. It's engagement on both.

[48:57] And you're able to like crowdsource this

[49:00] [ __ ] That was the beautiful part about

[49:01] Twitter chats is that you would get all

[49:04] of this. It's kind of like your AMAs,

[49:05] but it's on Twitter and it would just be

[49:08] this back and forth. You get all of this

[49:10] content just flooding your feed.

[49:12] No, remember

[49:16] we used to take that and then Twitter

[49:18] moment.

[49:22] You would take the screenshots of the

[49:23] chat from other users and use that to

[49:26] create the Twitter moment. Oh my god,

[49:28] this Twitter moment so bad.

[49:31] Do you still do it?

[49:33] No, I still do it.

[49:33] I haven't seen any of those in a while.

[49:35] No, they they the the whole thing is you

[49:37] you've got to have that trending

[49:38] hashtag, schedule it, do all of that.

[49:40] But it works well and because you can

[49:43] frame it, which then links directly to

[49:45] Twitter. Again, you're getting a two for

[49:47] one.

[49:48] So, I'll answer this too in case anybody

[49:50] wants to help. There's a lot of

[49:52] parasites. I use every single one of

[49:53] them things that they just mentioned. Uh

[49:56] what's been kind of like my favorite for

[49:58] a while aides from Countrybass, Wiki

[50:00] Data, Patch, uh Soundcloud, those are

[50:04] absolutely mandatory. Somebody say

[50:06] something Podbean. Well, yeah, that

[50:08] that's what I'm getting at. My top

[50:10] [ __ ] thing, Parasite Play, is

[50:12] just go sign up for Buzz Sprout if you

[50:14] want, right? Because I talk about

[50:15] Podbean all the time for two reasons.

[50:19] One, because I got banned from Buzz

[50:21] Sprout. Don't [ __ ] ask me how, but I

[50:23] cannot I cannot use Buzz Sprout, right?

[50:25] But then I love Podbean cuz I can embed

[50:29] something onto the [ __ ] episode. So,

[50:32] not only is the audio there, I can embed

[50:35] either my GMBB map, my Pinterest pin,

[50:38] whatever the [ __ ] I want, a YouTube

[50:40] video, whatever I want. Usually, you

[50:42] know what that is, bro? The GMBB map,

[50:43] right? You I want that map link. Then

[50:46] when you uh hook it when you put the

[50:48] episode into Podbean, it syndicates to

[50:51] all the top [ __ ] uh podcasting sites,

[50:54] right? My my man Sean, you know, we we

[50:57] we he I don't even know where he's going

[50:58] to end up going, but we started building

[51:00] the tool. He start he been off and

[51:02] running to make it even easier. When you

[51:05] do one of those, whatever the term is,

[51:08] whatever the episode was, which should

[51:10] be what a PAA, right, if you're going to

[51:12] ask me, when you go search for it, or if

[51:15] you search for the brand's name, I

[51:17] promise you at least two or three

[51:18] podcasting sites will show up on the top

[51:21] first page. So, if you're doing rep

[51:23] management and somebody's got not

[51:25] looking too good, immediately go do a

[51:28] podcast. They don't need to be on there.

[51:29] The audio could be from [ __ ] Notebook

[51:31] LLM, 11 Labs. I don't give a [ __ ] That

[51:34] podcast podcast syndication is sick as

[51:37] [ __ ] And shout out to Bradley, right?

[51:40] Cuz if Syndication Network, I said never

[51:43] I just started, kept adding on, kept

[51:44] adding on, kept adding on. Oh, and by

[51:46] the way, me Tumblr I never stopped

[51:48] using. And Medium is a [ __ ]

[51:51] Slick testing. I'm trying to break

[51:53] blogger again also. I'll let you know.

[51:55] Dang, got parasites for years.

[51:57] No. So, this is an easy one. So based

[51:59] off of what you're saying, another way

[52:01] that I like to do it is I'll set it up

[52:02] to push it to SoundCloud because

[52:04] SoundCloud has its own RSS.

[52:05] Yeah. Yeah. SoundCloud is a must. What

[52:07] do you do with the RSS where you embed

[52:09] Spotify the podcasters into if into NAM

[52:13] everywhere else?

[52:15] Because now you've got an RSS to another

[52:17] RSS to another RSS. You can do that

[52:19] infinite frame.

[52:21] Infinite loop, baby. Hold up. Who

[52:22] created the infinite loop? Was that

[52:25] y'all too or Noah? That was y'all right

[52:27] there. Hey, listen. People, Marco, okay,

[52:29] semantic mastery, that's still you. You

[52:31] know, some people say, "Oh, I do press

[52:33] release stacking, right?" You know,

[52:34] which if you know, you know. If not,

[52:36] maybe we don't got enough time for that

[52:37] right now. But your silo is not complete

[52:40] if you're not going back there and

[52:41] changing that first. There was silo. The

[52:43] [ __ ] are you talking about? Right.

[52:45] Anyway, any other questions?

[52:47] Nester. Yes.

[52:48] I just like to add that one parasite. We

[52:50] were talking

[52:52] tomorrow I'm talking about par but um

[52:54] there is one that you can use as well

[52:57] every educational uh CRM wherever they

[53:00] they give you a free page so

[53:04] I think we were talking briefly not

[53:06] about that but about the edu how the

[53:08] students even get the sub page right so

[53:10] if you know somebody in college you're

[53:11] like oh can I get a blog post

[53:16] any questions any questions

[53:23] Joy and Simon and anybody else, but you

[53:25] guys were talking about specifically

[53:26] when you are using a review, you're

[53:30] going to move it over right from Google,

[53:32] you're going to put it on the web page

[53:33] and you're going to mark it up on the

[53:34] schema.

[53:38] What is your position?

[53:41] So for service industries who have

[53:44] people who come and go, right? So, the

[53:46] review might be it's under it's under

[53:49] the company's name, but it has

[53:51] individuals names that are no longer

[53:53] with the company. Can you still can you

[53:56] schema it up

[53:58] in the owners names, let's say, instead

[54:02] of the individuals who are in the

[54:04] review?

[54:09] Hold on. Hold on. My bad.

[54:12] Hold on. Hold on, K. Hold on. Hold on.

[54:14] My bad.

[54:17] Personally, I don't care if it's an

[54:19] employee or that or not. I'm looking at

[54:20] it from the brand standpoint that, hey,

[54:23] we do this, this, and this is a

[54:25] fantastic experience, five stars, the

[54:27] sentiment, it's positive. But the other

[54:29] thing I would add to that is a one of

[54:31] the issues I see with a lot of people is

[54:33] just throw one of these little widgets

[54:34] up on the page that goes and grabs all

[54:36] the reviews and throws it up like, "Hey,

[54:38] here's all these reviews and stuff like

[54:40] that." What I like doing is I'll go in

[54:41] and I'll look at the justifications for

[54:43] that specific review. They specifically

[54:45] talked about re-roofing or uh roofing

[54:49] tear off C, you know, the crew was

[54:51] clean, right? I'll take a look at that.

[54:54] That's where kind of like what Joy was

[54:56] talking about, I'll add it specifically

[54:58] to that page. So, if we're talking

[55:00] about, you know, roof re-roofing or

[55:02] storm damage repair, I'm going to try

[55:04] and find a review. And if I'm taking the

[55:06] review and embedding it on that page,

[55:08] it's going to be specific to that

[55:09] service, not just willy-nilly like

[55:12] here's all the [ __ ] reviews that they

[55:13] have.

[55:16] So, this is going to make me sound

[55:17] really lazy, but uh we do not mark up

[55:19] individual pages. I stick that thing in

[55:21] the footer and it gets us like sitewide

[55:24] um gold stars on every page. Uh so I

[55:27] don't like I would grab a review that

[55:29] looks great and maybe not one that

[55:31] mentions a former employee. Um, but

[55:34] that's pretty much I'll usually only

[55:35] like put one or two on there and it's

[55:37] really the average rating that I want

[55:39] for per for schema. Um,

[55:42] y

[55:46] was doing the schema on the clouds and

[55:47] stuff. If you put if you change the

[55:50] stars on the cloud and it showed this

[55:53] service and it would come out reviews,

[55:56] but hey, I remember all the I had 568.

[56:01] But then but then we started getting

[56:02] manual penalty.

[56:03] No, I know. I know. I'm just I'm not

[56:05] listen.

[56:11] So, you know, I I'm not lazy. I I'm like

[56:14] I go in, bro. I love details, right? I

[56:17] do not put sitewide reviews on service

[56:19] pages nor in the footer. I I'm not doing

[56:22] that, right? The service is going to

[56:24] have only reviews showing about that

[56:26] service. Every image on that page is

[56:28] about that service. Every video on that

[56:30] page, if there's more than one, is about

[56:32] that service, right? Same thing on the

[56:34] paa level. I like [ __ ] to be completely

[56:37] siloed. No outside break, unless I'm

[56:40] controlling it because of course, you

[56:42] know, everything needs to connect. It's

[56:43] a website. Any other questions?

[56:45] Wait, wait, hold on.

[56:46] So, now you're going to do it on the

[56:47] subdirectory LLMS file for that

[56:49] particular uh service.

[56:51] Okay. Do you So, I need to update that.

[56:54] Damn. Okay. Why? Because if not, it's

[56:56] going to it'll reflect wrong if not or

[56:59] Okay. Okay. Cool. You had something

[57:02] else, Nester? You had something else?

[57:05] You don't got another parasite for us?

[57:09] Not for now. Not for after some tequila.

[57:11] Hey, you want some? Hey, if you want

[57:13] some parasites, talk to Nester after

[57:15] some tequila. I promise you, you'll get

[57:17] some good ones. Uh, any other questions

[57:19] here?

[57:22] Yeah. Yeah. [ __ ] yeah. I knew I was

[57:24] thinking like, yo, somebody shared some

[57:26] ill parasites just the other day. Let me

[57:28] pull up my list

[57:32] a sec.

[57:35] So these are mainly for uh vcoded stuff

[57:38] or HTML pages.

[57:40] But what I'm using is top 15 right now.

[57:43] GitHub pages, Netlefi for CELL,

[57:47] GitHub pages,

[57:50] Netlefi

[57:52] for Cell, Firebase,

[57:55] Cloudflare Pages,

[57:58] Get lab pages

[58:00] surge.sh

[58:03] render glitch replet aws amplify azure

[58:10] static apps railway and fly.io

[58:19] make me open it again. Railway

[58:22] railway got some slick ass true cloud

[58:25] [ __ ] going on. I like

[58:27] Yeah, bro. Ain't that [ __ ] man? And I

[58:30] gotta give mad love to you because

[58:31] remember when I was so scared like,

[58:32] "Bro, how did I whip up a [ __ ] server

[58:34] inside of this hosting [ __ ] So

[58:36] confusing." Now I'll be like gone. It's

[58:39] got uh Digital Ocean. Yeah, Digital

[58:42] Ocean is definitely fire. So we um

[58:46] Vulture

[58:48] Wasabi. Yeah. All the cloud sites.

[58:50] Bunny. Bunny. Yo. Oh, not Bunny. Blaze.

[58:52] Remember Blade? When is it called Blaze

[58:54] or Bunny?

[58:56] There were two separate ones. Yeah. But

[58:57] at one point, Blaze was like tearing

[58:59] [ __ ] up. Here's another thing. If you do

[59:01] any cloud stacking, if you guys

[59:02] disagree, please just chime in. Right.

[59:04] It's like because there's like there's

[59:06] so many different cloud providers,

[59:08] right? But let's just say like the top

[59:10] 12 and then out of them there's like

[59:12] four big players, right? Which one is

[59:15] more powerful be switching? Like

[59:17] sometimes it's AWS. Then at one moment

[59:19] IBM was absolutely smacking [ __ ] bro.

[59:23] But then that [ __ ] died off quick. Have

[59:24] you guys noticed that as well?

[59:27] Yep. Yes.

[59:30] Sometimes

[59:31] Yeah. Sometimes

[59:32] sometimes Oracle pops in.

[59:35] It's It's a pain in the ass. Even S3

[59:37] cloud pages will pop pop in and out of

[59:39] the index. They do that all the time.

[59:41] But I I still use that as like you said,

[59:43] an ID page because it's still Google's

[59:45] crawling that. There's no question it's

[59:47] being crawled. You can see it in the

[59:48] backlink profile if you go look at

[59:49] search console. So whether it's in the

[59:50] index or not, I don't care.

[59:56] Yo, y'all see me trying to drain brain,

[59:59] right? I hope y'all appreciate that cuz

**[01:00:01]** my back hurts.

**[01:00:04]** Any other questions? Any other

**[01:00:05]** questions? No. Guys, what question?

**[01:00:12]** Sure. Go ahead.

**[01:00:14]** I think Joy Joy, you mentioned this this

**[01:00:16]** morning about calculators, having a

**[01:00:18]** calculator on there. So,

**[01:00:21]** what what's a typical We have an

**[01:00:23]** attorney in the room, right? What's a

**[01:00:25]** typical question that people call you

**[01:00:29]** that involves numbers? Like obviously

**[01:00:30]** money

**[01:00:45]** Yeah. So, the question is basically how

**[01:00:48]** much is my case worth? whether it was in

**[01:00:49]** an accident or broke broke a leg blah

**[01:00:51]** blah blah blah obviously has to depend

**[01:00:53]** right the and it's really hard to do a

**[01:00:56]** range so but I I have let's just say

**[01:01:01]** what what is the what's the fee that you

**[01:01:03]** call the uh when you take is it the

**[01:01:05]** third day what's the

**[01:01:06]** retain retainer fees

**[01:01:08]** uh is it like 30% something like that so

**[01:01:11]** here's a stupid really stupid calculator

**[01:01:14]** and you can vive code it all day long I

**[01:01:16]** did this for a client site it's

**[01:01:18]** you find a PAAA or something like how

**[01:01:20]** much will I get for my settlement and

**[01:01:23]** you say well if you make a if you have a

**[01:01:25]** million dollars how much do I get and

**[01:01:27]** you slide it between like say 20 30% or

**[01:01:30]** 35 or 5% it tells you how much they get

**[01:01:33]** a after your commission like okay so

**[01:01:37]** I've seen engagement on this like stupid

**[01:01:39]** ass little page all it has is a stupid

**[01:01:41]** JavaScript calculator and that's that's

**[01:01:44]** it that's all that's on there like can

**[01:01:46]** you do like 30% of a million or 30% of a

**[01:01:50]** 100,000.

**[01:01:52]** I put out

**[01:01:56]** some people.

**[01:02:16]** That's That's going to be some viral

**[01:02:18]** [ __ ] right there. I can guarantee you

**[01:02:19]** that.

**[01:02:22]** So, one thing I would add to this and

**[01:02:24]** what just frustrates the ever loving

**[01:02:26]** crap out of me about a lot of people

**[01:02:28]** when it comes to these calculators or

**[01:02:30]** like putting pricing on your stuff, like

**[01:02:32]** if you build websites, right? If someone

**[01:02:34]** comes up to you and asks like, "Well,

**[01:02:35]** how much does a website cost?" As a

**[01:02:37]** professional, you should have a pretty

**[01:02:38]** [ __ ] good idea, like at least

**[01:02:40]** baseline. If you don't, then like really

**[01:02:43]** how well do you under understand your

**[01:02:45]** injury? Because I guarantee

**[01:02:47]** that end customer and this is where

**[01:02:49]** we've got to get out of the mindset of

**[01:02:50]** just SEOs and just marketers that

**[01:02:53]** customer has already probably gone to

**[01:02:55]** Google. They've asked how much does X Y

**[01:02:58]** and Z pay out or how much does whatever

**[01:03:00]** cost. Google [ __ ] tells them that. So

**[01:03:03]** if you're not willing to put that on

**[01:03:04]** your website or be upfront well like hey

**[01:03:06]** there's a lot of variables that start

**[01:03:08]** out typically we see that our service

**[01:03:11]** starts at X Y or Z price point, right?

**[01:03:15]** It's a trust signal. It It signifies

**[01:03:17]** that yes, we we're transparent about our

**[01:03:19]** pricing. If it if you call up a

**[01:03:21]** marketing agency and they're like, I

**[01:03:23]** don't know how much money you got.

**[01:03:25]** Like, does that really instill

**[01:03:27]** confidence in you as a business owner or

**[01:03:29]** if it's like, "Oh, yeah. Well, our

**[01:03:30]** services start off at here and they can

**[01:03:32]** go up to here depending on how

**[01:03:34]** customized or how much difficulty it's

**[01:03:36]** going to be or whatever." But like, come

**[01:03:38]** on. Like it's it's prevetting and

**[01:03:42]** pre-qualifying all of your all of the

**[01:03:44]** people because if your clients are

**[01:03:45]** bitching about like we get [ __ ] leads,

**[01:03:48]** they suck and all this, it's probably

**[01:03:49]** because you're not listing price. You're

**[01:03:52]** not pre-qualifying these people with

**[01:03:53]** pricing ahead of time and so you're

**[01:03:55]** getting garbage leads

**[01:04:04]** starting at range. I don't think the

**[01:04:07]** only one would be potentially attorney

**[01:04:12]** some state ones.

**[01:04:13]** Yeah, I was told in Nevada.

**[01:04:16]** But if at all possible, I just I tend to

**[01:04:18]** see this across the board with a lot of

**[01:04:20]** industries where people are like, "Oh,

**[01:04:22]** we can't put our price on there. We

**[01:04:24]** can't mention how much this costs."

**[01:04:25]** Like, that's the reason I'm googling you

**[01:04:28]** is I want to know like if I have if if

**[01:04:30]** my AC breaks down and I have to have it

**[01:04:32]** replaced, like, am I looking at a couple

**[01:04:34]** thousand dollars? Am I looking at 20

**[01:04:36]** grand? Do I need to, you know, sell my

**[01:04:38]** first born on eBay? Right? Like, I need

**[01:04:40]** to know what this is going to cost.

**[01:04:43]** And that's why I'm why I'm running the

**[01:04:45]** search. If at all possible, help people

**[01:04:48]** out. Tell them what it is.

**[01:04:50]** I can ask that too.

**[01:04:54]** For any of you in here like me, like

**[01:04:56]** DIY, you don't want to spend the money

**[01:04:58]** to get your HVAC fixed or something.

**[01:05:01]** Yeah. Well, Jose, I mean, look at his

**[01:05:03]** this guy on Facebook. He remodels his

**[01:05:05]** entire house. His wife isn't happy. I'll

**[01:05:07]** remodel it again. Right.

**[01:05:10]** So, if you need some help, Jose's your

**[01:05:12]** man. No, but seriously, I have because I

**[01:05:16]** I I like DIY stuff because it's I feel I

**[01:05:19]** get fulfillment. It's not because I'm

**[01:05:20]** cheap and lazy because I like doing it.

**[01:05:22]** It's it's a different thing than SEO.

**[01:05:25]** So, for my HVAC client in Dallas,

**[01:05:28]** wherever I said it was, I will do how

**[01:05:31]** much does it cost to repair my AC? No,

**[01:05:33]** it was my AC is broken. How much will it

**[01:05:36]** cost to fix it? Well, it depends. If

**[01:05:38]** it's this, it might be a capacitor and

**[01:05:40]** they cost 125 bucks. You can get them at

**[01:05:43]** Home Depot or your local supply store.

**[01:05:46]** It cost you 125 bucks to do it in about

**[01:05:48]** 30 minutes. You can find out how to do

**[01:05:49]** it on YouTube. But

**[01:05:53]** exactly, but if you're not capable, you

**[01:05:57]** could fry your house and do like stuff

**[01:06:00]** blah blah blah blah. So is it if Yeah,

**[01:06:02]** you can you can do it for 125 bucks.

**[01:06:05]** Look like the hero to your wife unless

**[01:06:07]** like you break the whole thing breaks

**[01:06:09]** down that cost 5,000 bucks to fix. So I

**[01:06:12]** I will do that like easy ones like say

**[01:06:15]** toilets really easy. Where's my house

**[01:06:16]** plumber? Like toilet flapper five bucks

**[01:06:19]** at Home Depot. Anyone can can do it. My

**[01:06:22]** my daughter replaced it like easy.

**[01:06:25]** Something else? Nah, you need a plumber

**[01:06:27]** unless you want to take a take a chance.

**[01:06:29]** So, I'll put that stuff on there because

**[01:06:32]** it's it's like like Brian says, it's

**[01:06:34]** it's on Google anyway. Put it on your

**[01:06:37]** site. Then you become the source of

**[01:06:38]** truth. Write that down. Source of truth

**[01:06:42]** and go Google it and see what it means.

**[01:06:44]** Then you go, "Oh, oh, that's

**[01:06:50]** right. I've seen

**[01:06:53]** this is

**[01:06:55]** priceang

**[01:07:15]** shows

**[01:07:20]** educational

**[01:07:23]** question.

**[01:07:24]** Yeah.

**[01:07:29]** Viral [ __ ]

**[01:07:30]** Oh

**[01:07:32]** yeah. So that so that was the uh the

**[01:07:34]** calculator. viral [ __ ]

**[01:07:36]** The viral [ __ ] was not my idea, but uh

**[01:07:39]** the the idea was excuse me, how many

**[01:07:43]** joints do you need to smoke to be under

**[01:07:45]** the legal limit or how many nanogs or

**[01:07:48]** whatever. So, a calculator and I mean

**[01:07:50]** you for a DUI attorney, it could be

**[01:07:52]** something similar in the niche, right?

**[01:07:54]** How many beers does it take to be over

**[01:07:56]** the legal limit,

**[01:07:57]** right?

**[01:07:59]** How many fill in the blank? And these

**[01:08:02]** are probably questions that you again if

**[01:08:04]** you look in search console you would

**[01:08:06]** probably find. If you look in PAAAS you

**[01:08:08]** would probably find if you're an if

**[01:08:10]** you're receptionist or if any of your

**[01:08:12]** assistants or yourself are answering

**[01:08:14]** phones I guarantee you probably have

**[01:08:16]** about five to 10 questions that you're

**[01:08:19]** like oh god we're asking this again.

**[01:08:22]** Okay well here it is. If you get a my

**[01:08:25]** opinion is if you're asked something

**[01:08:27]** more than three times or have to do the

**[01:08:29]** same thing, same process, same workflow

**[01:08:31]** more than three times, you either need

**[01:08:34]** content around it, you need to automate

**[01:08:36]** it, it needs to be a resource where

**[01:08:37]** you're just like, go check that out

**[01:08:46]** and content, right? It can depends.

**[01:08:49]** We've seen it as as low as 20. We've

**[01:08:51]** seen it a couple thousand. Here's the

**[01:08:54]** factors, right? And then you become

**[01:08:56]** again the source of truth with that.

**[01:08:59]** Okay. Well, if someone's asking this

**[01:09:00]** question, here's what it is.

**[01:09:04]** No, on that topic, bro, like what I do

**[01:09:06]** is I go right to Reddit again with the

**[01:09:08]** scraper I have and I with a prompt I

**[01:09:10]** saved that I'm not sharing. You got to

**[01:09:12]** do your own [ __ ] prompt engineering.

**[01:09:14]** No disrespect. And then I just go get

**[01:09:16]** that and then create a trip wire, bro,

**[01:09:18]** for the local business and throw it out

**[01:09:20]** there. Put it on. on social and make it

**[01:09:22]** a nice sexy little reel. Tomorrow I'm

**[01:09:24]** going to show you how you can upload to

**[01:09:25]** the grant or Tik Tok, one of the two.

**[01:09:27]** I'm dyslexic. And on a story, if you do

**[01:09:30]** it the right way, you can get a outbound

**[01:09:31]** link. All you got to do is swipe up,

**[01:09:34]** link right out to what you want, the

**[01:09:35]** blog post, the offer, GHL, landing page,

**[01:09:38]** right? Tripwires, bro. No, I'm not

**[01:09:40]** sharing that. Oh, I'm I'mma show them,

**[01:09:42]** but they got to figure out how to do it

**[01:09:44]** on their own, bro. It's rockstar. We got

**[01:09:46]** to deliver and make sure [ __ ]

**[01:09:47]** is implementing, baby. Any other

**[01:09:49]** questions?

**[01:09:51]** Questions? Questions? Going once. Before

**[01:09:54]** I close it out though, let me get my

**[01:09:56]** little paper because my dyslexia is room

**[01:09:59]** 732. Hopefully y'all already wrote it

**[01:10:02]** down, but to re re-re,

**[01:10:05]** right?

**[01:10:06]** So, it's like, you know, pretty much in

**[01:10:08]** the few.

**[01:10:10]** Give us a couple minutes to set it up.

**[01:10:11]** So, maybe 5:45, 6 o'clock. I'm sure

**[01:10:14]** y'all want to go to your room and

**[01:10:15]** stretch it out. Guys, one thing I need

**[01:10:17]** from y'all though, real quick. How is

**[01:10:19]** day two? So at Rockstars.

**[01:10:21]** Yeah.

**[01:10:25]** Thank you. Thank you. And then last

**[01:10:26]** thing, give it up for the speakers guys

**[01:10:28]** today, please. One more time.

**[01:10:32]** I just noticed that's where the camera

**[01:10:34]** is. Appreciate y'all virtually, too. 15.