SEO Rockstars 2026: Day 2 - Joy Hawkins

[00:04] Oh man, had never had an intro like that

[00:06] before. Thanks, Mike. Okay, so where do

[00:08] I have to stand to not have echo? All

[00:10] right, let's

[00:12] here.

[00:13] That's good. Okay. All right, so

[00:15] speaking of personal injury lawyers, I'm

[00:18] going to start with one. Uh, we had a

[00:20] client that when AI started really

[00:23] getting a lot of attention, this guy was

[00:25] like, "Man, I'm going to figure this AI

[00:27] thing out and I'm going to make all

[00:28] these pages for my website and I'm going

[00:30] to make them all different, but I'm

[00:31] going to target every single city in my

[00:34] entire state and I'm just going to

[00:35] create several hundred pages using AI

[00:39] and this is going to be, you know, great

[00:40] for my business." and he asked for my

[00:42] opinion expecting that I'm going to

[00:44] praise him and then I'm going to tell

[00:45] him this is a great idea and he's super

[00:46] smart and I'm like yeah I don't know if

[00:49] I do that. I'm like in fairness I

[00:51] haven't actually witnessed a lot of

[00:52] firms try this but I don't think it's

[00:54] going to work. He did not like that

[00:56] answer. He went ahead and published them

[00:58] anyway. And what's really funny is the

[01:00] day that he published them. We go into

[01:02] search console and we're kind of looking

[01:04] for increased traffic and this guy only

[01:06] had like maybe 200 pages on his site

[01:09] already. So he like doubled his site and

[01:12] you would think that you would have like

[01:14] this noticeable imp impact to his

[01:16] traffic. I will say that little increase

[01:18] had nothing to do with any of these

[01:19] pages like one page on his site that we

[01:21] had optimized. But basically nothing

[01:23] nothing happened. In fact the only

[01:25] metric that went up was the number of

[01:26] unindexed pages on his site. So this

[01:30] really didn't work. Um now if you're

[01:32] sitting here thinking that the problem

[01:34] is because you use AI, that is not it at

[01:37] all. Um, and I'm gonna explain. There

[01:39] was another case uh around the same time

[01:41] that reached out to me on the local

[01:43] search forum, which is a free online

[01:45] forum. It's actually, I think, where I

[01:46] met Brian. Um, and this guy reached out

[01:48] because he had a manual penalty on his

[01:50] site for thin content. I don't see this

[01:53] often in local SEO. It's pretty rare.

[01:55] So, I wanted to look at the site. So, I

[01:56] asked him if he could send me the site

[01:57] and I took a look. Basically, this guy

[02:00] had created thousands of pages, service

[02:02] area pages is what we call them, um,

[02:04] targeting different cities all over. or

[02:06] I believe he was in the UK and this is a

[02:09] screenshot showing like the warning he

[02:10] got. Um essentially his site tanked,

[02:13] everything um stopped ranking. He had

[02:16] these location pages literally

[02:17] everywhere. And the kicker with these

[02:19] was that he's like, "Joe, you don't

[02:20] understand." He's like, "Google's giving

[02:22] me this manual action, but like I had

[02:24] people handwrite these. I paid people to

[02:26] go into every page and make them

[02:28] different and like reword the content."

[02:31] I was like, "Dude, this is such a

[02:32] terrible strategy." Because the problem

[02:34] isn't like you don't need to go, you

[02:36] know, change red to maroon or blue to

[02:38] navy. That is not exactly what Google is

[02:40] going after when they talk about what

[02:42] kind of content you should write. Um,

[02:43] and this guy did all that and he still

[02:46] got screwed. Um, so what we want to talk

[02:49] about today is this concept of good

[02:51] content. Like what exactly is Google

[02:52] looking for? Because I hate it when

[02:54] people just say, "Oh, make good content.

[02:55] It's the stupidest thing ever." Uh, what

[02:57] Google really is trying to do is figure

[02:59] out like, okay, there's a lot of garbage

[03:00] out there that AI is producing. There's

[03:02] a lot of good stuff and Google's trying

[03:04] to figure out what which is which. Um,

[03:07] and if there's any site that is doing

[03:09] this well, this would be Reddit. Now,

[03:11] Reddit is one that I've been keeping a

[03:13] really close eye on because they have

[03:14] just surged in a way that I've never

[03:16] seen before. Um, when you look at their

[03:18] traffic trends over the last few years,

[03:20] it's actually insane. Uh, I don't see

[03:22] too many sites that look like this at

[03:24] the magnitude that they have. We're

[03:26] talking like millions and millions and

[03:27] millions of visitors. Uh, their stock

[03:29] price isn't doing so bad either. Um, but

[03:32] basically the other reason why we are

[03:34] really paying attention to Reddit is

[03:36] they are one of the top sources for LLMs

[03:38] as well. So there's kind of a big

[03:40] trifecta here. Um, I think I never heard

[03:43] Reddit spoke about at any conference

[03:44] that I ever went to a few years ago. Now

[03:47] tons of people are talking about them.

[03:49] Um, and the good news is I'm not here

[03:51] going to talk about like necessarily

[03:52] like how to get on Reddit. I have a tiny

[03:53] bit of that, but like it's more like

[03:55] what are they doing? Why in the world

[03:56] does Google want to surface Reddit so

[03:58] much? Um, can you do that with your

[04:00] website? I've kind of broken it down

[04:02] into six steps that I'm going to go

[04:04] through and reasons how Reddit works,

[04:07] but also that you can apply to your own

[04:08] site. So, the first one is actually

[04:10] really simple, but something that I just

[04:12] don't see businesses doing ever, which

[04:14] is using stories for content. So, what

[04:17] we often see on Reddit is people will

[04:19] talk about their problems, right?

[04:21] They'll be like, you know, long novel.

[04:23] This is all the things that I had happen

[04:25] to me. Um, I moderate quite a few

[04:27] subreddits and this is literally what we

[04:29] get. Um, so we're like, how do we figure

[04:31] out how to do this for our clients? So,

[04:33] first up, we had a criminal lawyer. So,

[04:35] basically what we did is we asked them,

[04:36] can you give us all the details of like

[04:38] various cases that you did? Uh, tell us,

[04:40] you know, the details of the DUI. Maybe

[04:43] uh you shouldn't be driving if you have

[04:44] a fifth DUI from meth. I don't know.

[04:46] Just saying. But this is a guy that he

[04:48] helped and he talked about all about how

[04:51] basically he got the case thrown out

[04:53] because the evidence wasn't handled

[04:54] correctly by the cops and um talked

[04:57] about like the fines and all the

[04:58] numbers. We've been talking about

[05:00] numbers here. Google really loves

[05:01] numbers. If you are a lawyer and you put

[05:03] numbers on your page, uh it's kind of

[05:05] crazy what we what we see happen with

[05:06] that. So the cool thing is is this helps

[05:09] organic rankings. It helps local pack

[05:11] rankings. All we did was add a story um

[05:14] with the details. We repeated this

[05:17] concept on a different client which was

[05:18] a dentist. Um, same kind of thing. We

[05:21] were like, "Okay, let's get a story of a

[05:22] patient that you helped. Give us the

[05:24] details. Leave out the names obviously

[05:25] for privacy reasons." And the cool thing

[05:28] was adding this story to his site not

[05:29] only increased his traffic and rankings,

[05:31] it also increased his conversions, which

[05:33] is clearly all that matters. A painter

[05:36] was even easier. Um, in this case, we

[05:38] basically just like before and after

[05:40] photos. How much was the job? How long

[05:42] did it take you to paint this house?

[05:44] Like, are we talking weeks? Are we

[05:45] talking months? Like, you know, give me

[05:47] numbers, time frame. Um, and this

[05:49] basically took this page from nothing to

[05:52] actually ranking and starting to get

[05:53] traffic and leads. Personal injury

[05:56] lawyer. We tried two different things.

[05:57] Again, I have a lot of clients that just

[05:59] really want to use AI for writing. Um,

[06:01] and they're like again, okay, Joy, I'm

[06:04] gonna different client, also a personal

[06:05] injury lawyer, but was like, I'm gonna

[06:07] have uh AI write some content, then have

[06:09] my lawyers approve it. Um, check it for

[06:11] accuracy, and then we'll publish them.

[06:12] And I'm like, h I don't know, guys.

[06:14] We've been down this road before. This

[06:16] is how their a content performed. Not

[06:18] really great. Um, and even when they

[06:20] tried to add it to like existing pages

[06:22] to see if that would lift it. Yeah. Not

[06:24] so much. This is a page that we actually

[06:26] used a case that they worked on. So,

[06:29] real stories, those actually worked. And

[06:32] to give you an idea, like this will help

[06:34] them rank as well for just lawyer terms,

[06:36] like the really, really good terms that

[06:37] people want to rank for. Um, it would

[06:39] had a very significant impact. Now, this

[06:42] is really easy because anybody can do

[06:44] it. The way that we are doing it on my

[06:46] agency is we have interviews with our

[06:48] clients every month. We try to get them

[06:49] on the phone. We have the questions

[06:51] listed out, which I'm going to show you

[06:52] how to get those. And we ask them and we

[06:54] make sure that we dig so that they give

[06:56] us those like semantically relevant

[06:58] things because that is what's helping

[07:00] the ranking here. It's not necessarily

[07:01] just the story. It's like if you're

[07:03] talking about a DUI, you need things

[07:05] like alcohol or meth or a fifth DUI or

[07:08] police or all those words that Google

[07:10] associates with getting a DUI. Um, and

[07:13] those naturally will come out in client

[07:15] stories. So, we interview the clients,

[07:17] we record it, we have the transcript, we

[07:18] use that transcript to come up with

[07:20] content. It's actually a pretty simple

[07:21] process, one that anybody can implement.

[07:24] Great.

[07:26] So the lawyer was using AI. So was he

[07:30] not taking some of the core documents

[07:33] putting that into like hey these are the

[07:35] court documents for this and he was mean

[07:38] doing that.

[07:39] I I don't think any of my clients are

[07:40] smart enough to to do that to be

[07:42] completely honest. Yeah. No most of

[07:44] these guys that I talk to and like

[07:45] business owners really like to think

[07:47] they can do SEO themselves. Like we we

[07:49] work with a lot of those types. We tend

[07:51] to attract businesses that research SEO

[07:54] and have watched our YouTube channel and

[07:55] things like that.

[07:59] Like when you do a case,

[08:02] you have PDFs from like the like case

[08:05] that you're working on, you know, at its

[08:08] conclusion stuff. You take those that

[08:11] stuff, throw it in there, and you think,

[08:13] can you like spit out a decent story

[08:16] like she's suggesting?

[08:17] So, I think there two answers that

[08:19] question.

[08:23] bike.

[08:26] Here we go.

[08:28] This is a great conversation.

[08:34] I think they're Oh, so they know that

[08:37] the people on the call can say, "Hey,

[08:39] I'm actually an attorney."

[08:41] Yeah, I stated a holiday in last night,

[08:44] but I'm an actual attorney.

[08:48] does not make sense.

[08:52] I I definitely think you can do that

[08:54] with some caveats depending on what your

[08:57] jurisdiction is and what your law is

[08:59] where you do. We have some restrictions

[09:01] in the jurisdiction I practice in that

[09:04] we can't disclose documents even to our

[09:06] clients. Uh we can't do that. So there's

[09:09] a way that you need to make sure that

[09:11] you're as the attorney that you protect

[09:14] yourself and your bar license. But we do

[09:16] interviews like that and try to get that

[09:19] data. And I was going to say this

[09:22] another time, but I probably won't talk

[09:23] again. Uh for those of you haven't used

[09:26] Joy, we used Joy, my law firm. Um and we

[09:31] lost our Google businesses last summer

[09:33] was instrumental in helping get the uh

[09:37] the

[09:38] What's your law firm? Look, I had no

[09:40] idea.

[09:41] You don't even know me. I get it.

[09:45] Sorry.

[09:47] That's amazing. All right, we'll have to

[09:48] talk after you tell me. That's

[09:49] hilarious.

[09:51] Um, yeah, and just to clarify, like I'm

[09:53] not anti-AI content. I definitely hate

[09:55] chat GBT. I'll throw that. I know that

[09:57] there was some comments yesterday about

[09:58] that. We have found that the content

[10:00] that's coming from chat GBT lately is

[10:01] utter trash. Like it is really bad. And

[10:03] I do think that's what most of these

[10:05] guys were using was chat. Um, and I

[10:08] think the other problem is like the

[10:09] reason why customer stories work so well

[10:10] is they are they were unique, but they

[10:12] have all the details that Google wants.

[10:14] And we've tried various like variations

[10:16] of this, even like transcribing calls

[10:17] and throwing it into chat GBT. And the

[10:20] problem is the semantics. It's really

[10:21] bad at it. And I picked uh Kyle Roof's

[10:24] brain because I had him on our YouTube

[10:25] channel. And he was like, yeah. He's

[10:26] like, LLMs are really bad with

[10:28] semantics. And he's like, maybe they'll

[10:30] get better with time. He's like, but if

[10:31] you're missing that, you know, the the

[10:33] the triples, all that stuff, it doesn't

[10:35] do that naturally. And I think that that

[10:38] um that business that I was talking

[10:40] about, actually both of them, fact that

[10:41] they're rewarding their content, they're

[10:43] they're losing all that value. Like

[10:45] they're taking their best content,

[10:46] they're rewarding it. They're actually

[10:47] making it worse. Um so there's there's a

[10:50] lot of things at play here, but I found

[10:51] the story angle just works better than

[10:54] almost any content strategy we've tried.

[10:56] And it's something any business can do,

[10:57] which is great.

[11:02] Yes.

[11:04] Sorry.

[11:07] Where are you placing the stories?

[11:10] Yeah, that's actually a great question.

[11:11] So, that's another thing people often do

[11:13] wrong. They have like a case studies.

[11:14] This is typical for lawyers. They'll

[11:16] have like a cases page. You don't want

[11:18] it on a cases page. You want it on the

[11:19] page about that topic. So, if you're

[11:21] trying to rank for like fifth DUI and

[11:24] that story about the fifth DUI you would

[11:25] want on your fifth DUI page.

[11:32] Yeah. Dead. You don't want that. It's

[11:34] the worst. No, my plumbers, they want

[11:36] it.

[11:40] Well, put it there too then. Make them

[11:42] happy and then also put it on their

[11:43] other pages.

[11:46] Yeah, just do both.

[11:48] Yeah.

[11:52] Uh I'm trying to think if I have link

[11:54] building in here. Uh the link built like

[11:55] link building to the stories. All this

[11:57] is

[12:01] that would

[12:04] I don't think so. I don't think that

[12:05] link building would have any impact on

[12:06] this either way. A lot of these pages

[12:08] like for the anchor text I'm sorry

[12:10] for the anchor text like on in the

[12:12] content or you talking about like links

[12:14] coming to the page

[12:15] coming to the page. Do you anything that

[12:18] would help like storytelling links?

[12:21] Um not really. The one thing that we we

[12:23] definitely use like anchored links but

[12:25] at a very small scale which that's a

[12:28] pattern I've been w I'm not talking

[12:29] about that today but pattern I've been

[12:30] like observing with businesses

[12:32] especially small businesses um that are

[12:34] getting nailed by the core updates a lot

[12:36] of them have heavily used anchored links

[12:38] that are like not branded like you know

[12:41] best plumber in Seattle 500 times but

[12:43] like even like 15 times Google's

[12:45] starting to pick up on so we're starting

[12:46] to see that the volume that you can do

[12:49] it's like oh that's yeah

[12:56] Yeah,

[12:57] I got

[12:59] I got my

[13:01] So all these games I'm talking about

[13:02] were strictly content. There was no link

[13:03] building at play in any of them.

[13:06] I was just ask on Reddit when you had

[13:10] Google train

[13:12] on the Reddit stuff. So would you

[13:14] actually if the lawyer gives you back a

[13:15] story but it's kind of bland or dry,

[13:18] would you then rewide it? Like would you

[13:20] would you scrape the Reddit some sort of

[13:21] icon from a pattern and then redo the

[13:23] story turning just to make sure all the

[13:25] various entities or whatever are in

[13:26] there or you take the story straight

[13:28] because the intern

[13:30] uh compliance issues.

[13:31] We we definitely add the entities. That

[13:33] step is super important but most of the

[13:34] time it'll get them a lot of them but

[13:36] certainly uh and again these ones we

[13:38] didn't but that's usually the next step

[13:40] is we will go in and add anything that's

[13:42] missing. Um as long as it doesn't change

[13:44] the meaning of the story we're just you

[13:45] know making the words a little better.

[13:48] No problem. Um, so I also want to talk

[13:51] about word count because this is

[13:52] something especially in a lot of the

[13:54] conferences I've attended over the last

[13:55] like five years, you hear a lot of

[13:57] people talking about how your content

[13:58] needs to be very long and very in-depth

[14:00] and you have these terms like 10x

[14:02] content um that have been really popular

[14:04] in the SEO industry. Um, we're seeing

[14:06] that that is less and less true uh these

[14:09] days that content doesn't need to

[14:10] necessarily be long and especially with

[14:12] the way that LMS are chopping stuff up

[14:14] actually sometimes shorter is better.

[14:16] Um, this is just one test. We've done a

[14:18] lot of tests on this. We had a realtor

[14:19] and like they're notorious for having

[14:22] stupid long content. It's kind of just

[14:23] as bad as recipe sites. And so they had

[14:26] like, you know, 4,000 words is too much

[14:29] for a real estate article. They had

[14:31] things like real estate prices, things

[14:33] to do nearby, commuting, all this crap

[14:34] obviously that as SEOs we add because

[14:36] we're like, this is helpful. Um, one of

[14:39] the things that kind of makes me

[14:40] obsessed with this concept is calculator

[14:42] pages. I love looking at calculator

[14:44] pages that rank for things like alimony

[14:46] calculator or child support calculator

[14:48] that have no content on them

[14:50] and they still rank and I'm like okay so

[14:52] if content is all you need then how does

[14:54] this page rank and they have no links

[14:55] either most of them um calculators are

[14:58] one of the things that we have seen

[15:01] really great success from um again they

[15:03] work really well with lawyers but

[15:05] there's other industries you can do them

[15:06] like mortgage and even like in home

[15:08] services if there's like cost

[15:09] calculators and things like that you

[15:11] don't need content you just add a

[15:12] calculator to the page and this is what

[15:14] will happen to traffic for calculator

[15:16] terms. So, this was also a lawyer. This

[15:18] one was a family lawyer. Um, and the

[15:20] great thing is is you can like reuse

[15:22] that that code or whatever on lots of

[15:24] different um sites. You just have to

[15:26] make sure the calculations are correct,

[15:27] but like simple prompts can grab you the

[15:29] code for this. Uh, I love stuff like

[15:31] this because I am not a technical SEO. I

[15:33] employ a lot of those. Please don't ask

[15:35] me like super technical questions.

[15:36] There's many other people here that can

[15:38] answer those way better than I can. Um,

[15:41] but when it comes to the content side,

[15:42] we have just found that more is not

[15:44] better. In the case of the realtor, when

[15:45] we removed like half their content, the

[15:47] rankings didn't drop. And then

[15:49] additionally, we've seen lots of cases

[15:50] where we add that much content and it

[15:51] doesn't improve. Um, so I personally,

[15:54] and I know there's SEOs that disagree

[15:55] with me on this, I don't like having

[15:57] word count as a KPI. I hate it when

[15:59] content writers ask me how many words

[16:00] they I'm like, as many as you need.

[16:02] Please don't ask me to give you a number

[16:03] to hit or you'll just usually end up

[16:05] with garbage. Um, now this is one

[16:07] obviously that's like kind of the thing

[16:09] that I feel like will be the best if you

[16:12] can figure out the answer to this

[16:13] question. How do you figure out what

[16:15] content to write? Because pretty much

[16:17] Google has articles on every topic. Uh,

[16:19] it is getting harder and harder to get

[16:20] your content indexed if you aren't

[16:22] giving them something they don't have.

[16:24] Um, so we've completely changed how we

[16:27] decide this. Like when I started in SEO,

[16:29] the way that you would do this is what's

[16:31] called a content gap analysis. And

[16:33] you'll see this in a lot of tools like

[16:34] AHF, Samrush, all these tools have stuff

[16:36] like this. And what you do is you go and

[16:38] you grab your competitor's site and you

[16:40] put it in, it tells you all the topics

[16:42] your competitor has and then you write

[16:43] about those topics. That doesn't work

[16:46] anymore because the problem is if you're

[16:48] simply writing all the crap your

[16:49] competitor has, why would Google index

[16:51] you? Why would they outrank your

[16:52] competitor when it's just like verbatim

[16:54] what they basically have already given

[16:55] Google? So, what we've been using um is

[16:58] this tool that Steve Toth created uh and

[17:01] I know Mike loves his PAAs. So, this is

[17:03] a a tool if you haven't seen it that uh

[17:05] basically you put it in your browser.

[17:06] It's free and it'll scrape the SER and

[17:09] it'll give you in a spreadsheet a list

[17:10] of all the PAAs people also ask. So,

[17:13] again, we're talking about this section

[17:15] here just in case anyone's not familiar

[17:17] with the term. It'll give you a giant

[17:19] list of hundreds of things to write

[17:20] about. Um and you can go through there.

[17:22] You will obviously have to dduplicate a

[17:24] few. There are some repetitive ones. Um,

[17:26] but this has been really really crucial

[17:28] for trying to define like basically what

[17:30] kinds of questions we are asking people

[17:32] to put on their site. There's a paid

[17:35] version that I'm currently testing. Kind

[17:37] of on the fence. It's good for giving

[17:38] you really outside ideas like things

[17:40] that maybe your competitors don't have,

[17:42] but it's kind of pricey. Um, AHS has

[17:44] this AI content helper tool. Um, and

[17:46] it'll go really deep. Like I tried this

[17:49] for lawn care and it was giving me like

[17:51] 15 different things that could be

[17:52] problems with like a yellow lawn. Um and

[17:55] I could go through them individually and

[17:56] ask the guy like individually about

[17:58] every single one. Of course, once you

[18:01] have content, the thing that you want is

[18:03] conversions. You want content that's

[18:05] actually going to convert. So what's the

[18:06] the angle here? Well, a lot of people

[18:08] will say images, right? They'll say like

[18:10] you need images on your content that

[18:11] helps conversions. Um but the problem

[18:13] with small businesses is they really

[18:14] suck at this. Um, if you run an agency,

[18:17] you probably know, you ask your clients

[18:18] for images, they're like, "Yeah, yeah,

[18:19] I'll get those to you." And then two

[18:21] weeks go by, a month goes by, two months

[18:22] go by, you don't get anything. That's at

[18:24] least been my experience. Now, when AI

[18:26] images first came out, I thought this

[18:27] was going to be the golden solution to

[18:29] everybody's problems. So, we really like

[18:31] dove into this. And um, this example

[18:33] that I'm going to show you here was

[18:34] actually a garage door repair business.

[18:36] We were like, okay, you could easily use

[18:38] AI to create a garage door. I could get

[18:40] every color of garage door, every style.

[18:42] Actually, the images of the the fake

[18:44] garage doors look better than the real

[18:45] ones. Um, and we would add them to

[18:47] client sites and they would have traffic

[18:49] lifts. Now, it looks even better when

[18:51] you look at image traffic. Uh, image

[18:53] traffic went up as well. So,

[18:54] everything's great here except Google

[18:57] made an update and they figured out how

[19:00] to tell if it's an AI image or a real

[19:02] image. Um, now again, like there's some

[19:05] industries where this doesn't matter. If

[19:06] your site is about unicorns, they

[19:08] probably don't care. But when it came to

[19:10] like home services and a lot of the

[19:11] industries that we work with, we saw the

[19:14] same trend. Basically, they rolled out

[19:15] this update that kind of killed the

[19:18] benefit of AI images and we went back to

[19:20] like some that we were testing on and we

[19:22] saw the same pattern like all the gains

[19:24] we got reversed when Google did this and

[19:27] this was about a year ago. Um, so that

[19:29] was kind of frustrating. Um, but they do

[19:30] have a way to detect AI images and they

[19:33] weight them differently. This was the

[19:34] image traffic same exact uh site. So, if

[19:37] you are using AI images, I would just

[19:39] really be careful about measuring um

[19:41] what impact they're having, if any,

[19:42] because we were originally seeing really

[19:44] awesome gains from them. And then we saw

[19:46] most of those gains getting reversed.

[19:49] So, then I'm like, okay, back to the

[19:50] drawing board. What kind of images do we

[19:52] need to be adding to this site um to

[19:54] make it do well? We decided to do a

[19:56] small sample of some of our clients. I

[19:57] went through and we found in various

[20:00] different industries pages that had

[20:02] images that were actually getting leads.

[20:04] And I was like, okay, I'm going to look

[20:05] and see like are there any trends or

[20:06] patterns I can see amongst these images

[20:09] to figure out uh what types of images

[20:11] are actually going to perform better.

[20:14] Was not expecting this outcome. First up

[20:16] on the list when it came to number of

[20:18] clicks was infographics. And I was like

[20:20] for real like what decade are we in

[20:22] here? I do not want to be talking about

[20:23] infographics in this presentation. But

[20:26] this is actually what we found when we

[20:27] sampled our clients. And I'm going to

[20:28] give you some examples because these

[20:29] aren't like AI generated infographics. A

[20:31] lot of them were uh ones that they had

[20:33] somebody custom make. Although I think

[20:35] some of the tools we're testing now are

[20:37] are actually good enough you could

[20:38] probably do this with an AI um tool.

[20:41] This was one that was a uh criminal

[20:43] lawyer and they basically had this whole

[20:45] article talking about gun- rellated

[20:47] homicides and he broke it down by state

[20:48] and then he made this pretty graphic to

[20:50] kind of show you which states were more

[20:52] problematic. This thing gets links, it

[20:54] gets clicks, um it does really really

[20:56] well. So those database studies that

[20:58] while it's really uh timeconuming

[21:01] strategy that still works. This was a

[21:03] less pretty one for an electrician. Uh I

[21:05] can't believe this thing got clicked.

[21:06] It's so pixelated and it was like from

[21:08] 2015. Um but this thing it was like one

[21:11] of the highest drivers of clicks on his

[21:13] site. Um so certainly something that is

[21:15] easy to replicate. This was one one of

[21:18] my staff created. Super easy uh simple

[21:20] but it was for a dentist just talking

[21:22] about the different types of cracked

[21:23] teeth. um and one of their top

[21:25] performing pages and highest traffic for

[21:28] um anything to do with teeth. Um when it

[21:32] came for best by conversion rate by

[21:34] conversion rate, the highest converting

[21:36] rate on all the images we looked at were

[21:38] images of bugs. Now, I will clarify this

[21:40] was mainly for tree uh tree services and

[21:42] pest control businesses. And I think

[21:44] there's still a lesson here if you don't

[21:45] work with any of those industries um

[21:47] showing problems, right? Like the thing

[21:49] with the tree care is like you want to

[21:51] see the problem in your tree. You want

[21:52] to see if it matches what you're seeing.

[21:54] And I can tell you with bugs, it's gross

[21:56] as it is, uh, if you have a bug problem,

[21:58] you want to know what kind of bug you're

[22:00] looking at. And I can tell you from

[22:02] experience, chat, JBT will not give you

[22:04] the right answer. So, please don't use

[22:05] it. I'm not going to show you an example

[22:07] of that picture. I'll save you all. So,

[22:08] here's just a blank slide. We're not

[22:10] going to look at bugs. When it came to

[22:12] the best by the number of conversions,

[22:13] so if you looked at the ones that had

[22:15] the highest number of conversions, they

[22:16] were photos of people. So, it turns out

[22:18] that human beings do still at some rate

[22:21] like genuine. this, which I think is

[22:22] hopefully a good thing. Um, but

[22:24] basically those are the kind of images

[22:25] that you would want. Now, um, an SEO tip

[22:29] that I'm going to come up with next

[22:30] actually helps not only with Google,

[22:33] also really helps with chat GBT as well.

[22:36] Um, and this is one of the reasons why

[22:38] people like Reddit. Now, you might argue

[22:39] Reddit is full of crap and garbage and

[22:41] uh, lots of people lying and promoting

[22:43] their own stuff, but it's also heavily

[22:45] moderated. So, I'd say as far as all the

[22:47] social platforms go, uh, I think it's

[22:49] the place that I go to where I want like

[22:52] nonpaid for answers. Um, because people

[22:55] are genuinely looking for experiences.

[22:58] So, this strategy was not one that um, I

[23:00] came up with. It was one again from

[23:02] Steve Toth. So, if you don't know Steve

[23:04] or his newsletter, he's a fellow

[23:06] Canadian, really smart SEO. And what I

[23:08] like about his newsletter is he gives

[23:09] you all these like actionable tips. So,

[23:11] when they come out, I try to like test

[23:12] every single one of them, see if we can

[23:14] make it work for our clients. This was

[23:16] one that worked very well. So in his

[23:18] newsletter, Steve talked about um how he

[23:21] noticed this particular company that was

[23:23] just dominating on chat GBT. When you

[23:25] search for best project management

[23:27] software, this one business kept showing

[23:29] up over and over and over. He's like,

[23:30] "What are these guys doing?" So he looks

[23:32] at their site on Google and he realizes

[23:34] that in all their title tags, for all

[23:36] their reviews page pages, all they were

[23:38] doing was adding the word honest to

[23:40] their title. Okay,

[23:42] this shouldn't work. This is too too

[23:44] easy. I'm like, nah. like come on, this

[23:46] can't be this easy. So, we did it on

[23:48] several client sites. We had clients uh

[23:50] this was also a garage door repair one

[23:51] where they were comparing two different

[23:52] brands. All we did was add the word

[23:54] honest review. That's it. Uh I think we

[23:56] added title and H1 and their traffic

[23:58] went up. Another page traffic went up a

[24:01] lot. Another one traffic went up. We're

[24:04] like this is too easy guys. Like it

[24:06] should not be this simple. Um, so

[24:09] basically what why I think this works so

[24:11] well is when you do a search on Google

[24:12] for brand press plus the word reviews,

[24:15] what we have found that Google will

[24:16] normally do is for whatever reason, they

[24:19] will rank that brand site first. So if I

[24:22] want to see Sterling Sky reviews,

[24:23] they'll actually rank Sterling Sky site

[24:25] first. Stupidest thing ever, but that is

[24:27] currently what Google does. Then

[24:28] generally if they have a Reddit, they

[24:30] will show Reddit. That is like next. Um,

[24:33] and then basically we were taking the

[24:36] third spot for this particular brand

[24:38] with our honest review page. So I'm

[24:39] like, okay, I'm not going to beat the

[24:41] brand and I'm not going to beat Reddit.

[24:42] I'll take third place. Pretty good. Um,

[24:44] so this strategy works really well. Uh,

[24:46] and again, it's crazy that the word

[24:48] honest seems to be kind of like magical.

[24:50] Um, I don't find a lot of strategies

[24:52] that work that are that quick to

[24:53] implement. Um, but this kind of begs the

[24:56] question about like, okay, let's

[24:58] actually end this by talking about like

[24:59] what to do about your own brand. um how

[25:02] do you get better for that? So this is

[25:04] where you do actually want to use

[25:06] Reddit. Like I said, we are seeing more

[25:08] and more for small businesses that like

[25:10] it is the highest ranking site for like

[25:13] reputation. When people ask about like

[25:15] brand plus reviews, Reddit is usually

[25:18] there way more than it used to be a few

[25:20] years ago. So people don't often think

[25:22] of Reddit as a review site. We talk

[25:23] about Yelp, we talk about Facebook or

[25:25] Home Advisor, whatever. But I'm like,

[25:26] "No, guys. Like don't forget about

[25:28] Reddit. somebody posts on Reddit about

[25:29] your brand, it's going to rank and that

[25:31] could be either good or bad for you.

[25:33] Like in here are these examples. Uh you

[25:35] know, when we search for Mr.

[25:36] Beastburgers, uh you get this giant

[25:38] Reddit thread and it's I love how Google

[25:40] like puts in like all caps the negative

[25:43] stuff. Like it's really not worth the

[25:45] price like screaming at you. Or there's

[25:48] these guys who's like, "What are they

[25:49] highlighting in bolding? They effed up

[25:51] my lawn." Um that's literally what

[25:53] Google decides to put in bold. And then

[25:55] in this case, they're, you know,

[25:56] highlighting terrible service, complete

[25:57] incompetence, and zero accountability.

[25:59] These are all real brands, right? How do

[26:02] you deal with this? Like, if you're a

[26:03] brand, we've got lots of clients that

[26:04] are bigger that are in this scenario

[26:07] where they have uh very angry people on

[26:09] Reddit talking about them. So, our

[26:11] solution to this is to go do an AMA on

[26:14] Reddit. And most people are doing this

[26:16] because they don't realize it's actually

[26:17] pretty easy to do one. Um, I actually

[26:19] moderate quite a few subreddits. Um, we

[26:22] are looking for AMAs all the time. Like

[26:24] if you have a lawyer that wants to do an

[26:25] AMA or if you have a HVAC company, uh

[26:28] please like talk to me. I've got a few

[26:30] that like we are literally looking for

[26:31] these because they work really well on

[26:33] Reddit. They get a lot of activity. They

[26:35] get a lot of comments and that is the

[26:37] exact thing you need for a thread to

[26:38] rank. So the best way to do that is to

[26:40] do an AMA. So I've been doing them like

[26:42] almost monthly for my brand on different

[26:45] subreddits. Um you will see now again

[26:47] like when you search Sterling Sky

[26:49] reviews, we get one of the AMAs that I

[26:51] did on Reddit. Um, and my site is first

[26:54] and then the AMA is second. And the site

[26:58] being first is really simple. And I I

[26:59] gotta say like almost every small

[27:01] business that we audit isn't doing this

[27:03] when we first talk to them. They have a

[27:05] testimonials page that has testimonials

[27:07] as the title. And I'm like, nobody

[27:09] searches testimonials. People do search

[27:11] reviews. All you have to do is basically

[27:13] change your testimonials page to have

[27:16] reviews instead and all of a sudden you

[27:18] will take that number one spot for your

[27:19] brand plus reviews. So, it's again

[27:22] stupid easy. Um, between those two

[27:24] strategies, you can kind of own the top

[27:26] two spots um and hopefully not have

[27:28] those negative Reddit threads. Um,

[27:31] that's all I've got for today. These are

[27:33] all the millions of places that you can

[27:34] find me, but I'll be around for

[27:36] questions as well.

[27:43] Thank you. Thank you. Question.

[27:47] Can you tell me two questions for you?

[27:50] one, uh, you have to dumb it down for me

[27:52] a little bit, right? Uh, can you explain

[27:54] to us what an AMA is for those of us

[27:56] that don't know what it is? And two,

[28:00] we have a review page and we have a

[28:04] testimonial page. And the testimonial is

[28:06] all videos that clients will give us.

[28:08] So, is there a suggestion that we

[28:10] combine those two and just call it a

[28:12] review page?

[28:13] Yeah, 100% combine them. Um,

[28:16] for the AMA, sorry, I should have

[28:18] defined that. I I really try not to use

[28:20] acronyms without defining them and I

[28:22] failed. So if AMA is ask me anything um

[28:24] and basically you like post. So if you

[28:27] were to do one and they're um like hey

[28:29] I'm a criminal lawyer in South Dakota

[28:32] ask me anything and you'll get like all

[28:33] kinds of people that will basically ask

[28:34] you questions. Um so it's you have to

[28:38] give away your time answering questions

[28:40] for free all day. Um, but it is one of

[28:42] the only types of threads where mods

[28:43] will almost always let you link to

[28:44] yourself because they realize you're

[28:46] giving up some of your time to help

[28:47] their um, and it helps their subreddit

[28:49] do better. Um, and a lot of them pin

[28:51] them as well. So, whenever we have an

[28:53] AMA on any of our subs, like we'll pin

[28:55] them, we'll promote them um, because

[28:57] they are one of the best ways to

[28:58] actually engage on Reddit. Um, but yeah,

[29:01] something that I feel like a lot of

[29:02] people are not doing.

[29:06] I do a ton of videos

[29:09] and Bill or uh so that it was either

[29:12] last month or the month before I was

[29:15] getting these notifications in search

[29:17] console that I didn't have a video page.

[29:20] Okay, there is there is procedure. You

[29:23] got to like go to Bill Herbertzer on on

[29:25] his Facebook post about it. If you have

[29:28] a ton of videos posted on your website,

[29:31] you need a video only page for Google to

[29:35] look at.

[29:36] I have a question on that. So, I heard

[29:38] this at Brighton a year ago and I was

[29:39] like, "This is genius." We tried it. It

[29:41] did not work.

[29:42] It didn't work. We were still getting

[29:43] the error from

[29:44] No, it wasn't the error that went away.

[29:46] The videos just don't The video pages

[29:48] didn't rank anywhere. They didn't do

[29:49] anything.

[29:51] Yeah. So, this concept of like you need

[29:53] to have a video only page on your

[29:55] website. Problem is Google likes

[29:56] YouTube. So, our YouTube video was

[29:58] always ranking and if we just put that

[30:00] same YouTube video on our website, the

[30:02] the pitch that I heard was you'll get

[30:04] ranked twice. you don't like they're

[30:06] like this is the same content.

[30:08] So it didn't work for us at all because

[30:10] we're like well the video

[30:12] Yeah. I So I don't quite understand the

[30:15] point if the video is already on YouTube

[30:16] and then you have a ranking from that

[30:18] video on Google. You're not going to

[30:20] have your video page on your website pop

[30:22] in as an additional position

[30:24] because it's like they want the video

[30:26] page but I don't give a [ __ ] about being

[30:28] there. I want it on the actual blog page

[30:31] talking about the crap I'm talking

[30:32] about. Well, you want it on YouTube

[30:34] because that's like Yeah.

[30:45] Yeah. I was really excited about that

[30:46] strategy, but it did not it did nothing.

[30:48] I ended up deleting them. I left them up

[30:50] for months. They got no traffic. They

[30:51] didn't rank anywhere. Um and I was like,

[30:53] "Well, yeah, Google's going to want to

[30:55] surface YouTube because they own it."

[30:57] Right. Exactly. And yeah,

[30:59] back on that bunch of questions there.

[31:01] Just adding in right whatever page

[31:04] you're using it on. I really don't give

[31:05] a [ __ ] Make sure you're using a video

[31:07] object schema.

[31:09] Make sure you add a video sitemap to

[31:11] your website. And if you don't do the

[31:12] basics, then don't [ __ ] complain. And

[31:14] that error, I've never had that [ __ ] do

[31:16] nothing negative to me at all. My team

[31:19] used to always bother me about stop

[31:21] [ __ ] talking about that dumbass

[31:22] error.

[31:24] Okay, infographic. So I tried napkin

[31:27] when it first came out but you know

[31:29] paragraph of a blog in there. We using

[31:32] notebook LLM infographics. What else are

[31:34] you testing that's working that are you

[31:35] willing to share?

[31:36] Yeah, there's I can get you I don't

[31:38] remember the name off the top of my

[31:39] head. We tried a a bunch of different

[31:40] tools and there was two that I really

[31:41] like. Both are paid. Um but they've been

[31:44] working pretty well. I don't think

[31:45] you're going to need a paid tool pretty

[31:47] soon. I think that like a lot of the AI

[31:49] like especially Google's Yeah, I was

[31:51] gonna say that's like

[31:53] Yeah.

[31:54] into the ranking. I've got the test, but

[31:56] I want to get 50 that work for sure. But

[31:59] right now, inner scoop, right? Got a lot

[32:01] of tests, PA. Bro, I'm not even supposed

[32:04] to drop this because I haven't put it in

[32:05] my mastermind yet. So, forgive me if

[32:07] you're in my mastermind, right? Take the

[32:10] PAA. The whole just the PAA title. Drop

[32:14] that [ __ ] in Google Nano. Get

[32:16] the infographic, use that as your

[32:18] featured image, and thank me, lady.

[32:20] That's all I'm saying.

[32:24] Yeah. So, this is actually a question

[32:26] from both I guess myself. Where do we

[32:29] get the bulkies?

[32:30] Yeah. WHAT'S UP WITH THE BULKIES?

[32:32] GOD,

[32:33] is that even a thing anymore? Like, are

[32:35] there actually people that have bulk

[32:37] accounts that can get multiple

[32:38] businesses verified? I don't know.

[32:40] Google Google really tried to shut that

[32:42] down. So, if it's still working, I would

[32:44] keep that quiet.

[32:47] Yeah.

[32:48] I definitely don't have one.

[32:50] I do not have one. I do not consider.

[32:52] Yeah. Don't have one

[33:06] um this is just one point about the AI

[33:09] images. Um one this is the way that I do

[33:12] right. Um when I create an AI image, I

[33:16] don't I don't upload the AI image. just

[33:20] take screenshots, right? No metadata,

[33:24] right? So, that way I'm I'm running

[33:27] safer. I think

[33:29] it's a good idea.

[33:30] Anyone else had another question? Yo,

[33:32] and if you're using stock images that

[33:34] you know, still, right? Take them, flip

[33:37] them, then take a screenshot and that

[33:38] [ __ ] works. Never stop working, you

[33:40] know? And if you need unique images, now

[33:43] this is a [ __ ] two second thing

[33:45] included on anything. Go to YouTube. a

[33:48] video that's non-branded and just take

[33:50] screenshots every second. Put it in a

[33:53] folder. Ask AI to sort it by only images

[33:55] by category that are nice looking

[33:57] images. There you go. Don't [ __ ] talk

[34:00] to me about images. [ __ ]

[34:03] Before that, that [ __ ] was easy. Now

[34:05] it's like

[34:08] I was gonna say ask the same question on

[34:10] that. Um, but so we built a system to

[34:13] test this out. We haven't tested it yet,

[34:15] but we're telling like roofers, plumbers

[34:18] who don't have the time to create

[34:19] content or don't prioritize it. We just

[34:21] have them take a a minute or two video

[34:23] on the job or what they're doing in 60

[34:25] frames a second on their phone and then

[34:27] they upload it into into this system we

[34:29] built that just cuts it. We have 4,000

[34:32] images every frame is an image. Exactly

[34:35] what you said.

[34:36] And that's creating GP post content, but

[34:38] like all the things they can post and

[34:40] do. Obviously, you're not choosing. You

[34:42] get to choose which ones look better and

[34:44] stuff, but I was wondering your opinion

[34:46] on that if if you think it's a good

[34:47] idea, a bad idea that it has a similar

[34:49] effect on AI images that you're talking

[34:50] about or thoughts on.

[34:52] Yeah. So, I would say the only negative

[34:53] is when you're leaving it up to like the

[34:55] tech, they may not include the right

[34:57] information. The reason why interviews

[34:59] work well is like my team has a list

[35:01] like we need these keywords, we need

[35:02] this example. They also have um when we

[35:04] use the people also ask scraper it

[35:06] includes the link um to the actual like

[35:09] part of the page that Google is grabbing

[35:11] the answer from. You know how it

[35:12] highlights it in purple. So like we have

[35:14] that link with all the the um data in it

[35:16] and it highlights it. So we're like

[35:18] pulling that up on the interview with

[35:19] them and if they give us like a wrong

[35:21] answer like that doesn't really match

[35:22] what Google's like looking for, we'll

[35:25] come back and like okay why this and

[35:26] that. So it it probably will work. But

[35:29] like we saw this when we were trying to

[35:31] do um transcripts from calls because

[35:33] we're like we can just use their call

[35:34] center. All the the phone calls they

[35:36] have with clients just take that. It

[35:38] didn't work as well because it was

[35:39] missing a lot of detail that we needed.

[35:41] Um so I think that's the only part where

[35:43] it might break down. You might need to

[35:44] like send them like okay we need a video

[35:46] about this. Can you mention this? You

[35:48] might need to coach them a bit more.

[35:54] Okay. Uh, Peter says, "Google said they

[35:57] are watermarking

[35:59] nano banana images. One, is there a way

[36:02] to remove those? Two, do you think that

[36:04] would solve the AI image filtering for?"

[36:08] It's worth testing. I have not tested

[36:09] it, so I don't know.

[36:13] Yeah, the screenshot thing. I would try

[36:15] the screenshot thing. That's a That's a

[36:17] great idea to test. So

[36:20] can I just tell you that there is a

[36:22] already litigation that has started

[36:24] of course

[36:25] with the removal of trademark. So

[36:29] you might want to take your nana banana

[36:32] and have something else done to it

[36:35] because at least I was reading an

[36:37] article in California that

[36:40] there's Google is going to has already

[36:42] started litigating it people who are

[36:44] taking the image removing the watermark

[36:47] and then putting it up as their own in

[36:50] the process and because they have the

[36:52] metadata tied into it it's not very hard

[36:54] for them to figure out. That is really

[36:57] great to know. Um I can tell you we've

[36:59] had clients that have gotten like the

[37:00] law, you know, the lawsuits they get in

[37:02] the email for images and stuff. Like a

[37:04] lot of them are legit. We've had several

[37:06] clients have actually gotten um to not

[37:08] for like a stupid amount of money, but

[37:09] some of them were pretty high for not

[37:11] having the rights to the images that

[37:12] they were using on their websites.

[37:15] Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, that's good to

[37:18] know that Google I mean I could see why

[37:20] Google would do that. So,

[37:21] okay, next question. Do you recommend

[37:24] putting your Google reviews on your own

[37:27] website review page or unique reviews?

[37:30] 100%. And at at a minimum, you want to

[37:32] copy like or download. We use a software

[37:34] called Place Scout that stores all the

[37:36] copies of the reviews. Google's

[37:37] notorious at, you know, just deleting

[37:38] all your hardened reviews. And you can

[37:40] often get them back if you have copies

[37:42] of them. If you don't have copies with

[37:43] them, you're screwed. So, you always

[37:45] want to have copies. Adding them to your

[37:46] site is one way to have a copy of them.

[37:48] And what she means just to explain,

[37:50] right? Like take a [ __ ] Google sheet,

[37:52] but the whole text, the name of the

[37:54] person, a screenshot of the review, and

[37:57] then I like to because you know I'm

[37:58] being OCD with it. I'm clicking into

[38:00] their profile and I'm taking a

[38:02] screenshot of as much of their [ __ ]

[38:04] review history if they're showing it as

[38:06] I can.

[38:06] So you can

[38:07] you can do that if you I mean an easier

[38:09] way is just keep the emails. If you have

[38:11] the email,

[38:12] yeah, if you keep the email

[38:13] notification, it has all the data in

[38:15] like the source code of the email that

[38:17] Google would need. It has a link to the

[38:18] person's profile. It has the text of the

[38:20] review. You just like we have folders

[38:22] for all of our review alerts and like

[38:23] you know for different client names. We

[38:25] just show them in there.

[38:26] If you're doing spam like me, take the

[38:28] screenshot.

[38:32] Next question. Your findings on content

[38:34] gap analysis make sense. EAS are also

[38:38] content that already exist. How are

[38:40] those topics different from a content

[38:43] gap analysis? Yeah. So, they seem to be

[38:45] heavier focused on things like price,

[38:47] which we were talking about yesterday.

[38:49] Um, I'll notice like that's often

[38:50] something you're not going to find on a

[38:52] competitor's site is like cost

[38:53] breakdowns or pricing or things like

[38:55] that. So, it definitely will give you

[38:57] content that your competitors don't

[38:58] have. But, we are starting to see now

[39:00] like, okay, what's the next step?

[39:01] Because like you said, there's a lot of

[39:03] PAS that show up that do exist on your

[39:06] competitor site. Um, I have Noah

[39:09] currently working on building. Noah's

[39:11] Noah learn is a genius guy that I hired

[39:13] that um builds all of our internal

[39:15] tools. He's trying to solve that. So I

[39:17] don't have the answer yet, but that's

[39:18] like one of the big things we're trying

[39:19] to solve this year is like where do you

[39:20] go to get the topics that like nobody

[39:22] has that you need to publish? Um so

[39:25] we're we're trying to find a better

[39:26] solution than just the

[39:27] PAAAS.

[39:39] So don't don't share this with the whole

[39:42] world, but yes, it's price, but we upped

[39:46] it by doing the time frame.

[39:48] They're looking Google, you said it.

[39:50] Google's looking for numbers. Yep.

[39:52] And so I am trying to differentiate my

[39:55] EAA because I now I have the price

[39:58] range,

[39:59] but the time frame is also a number.

[40:01] Yep. Okay. So, you got to think about

[40:02] the business. What other extra number

[40:05] can you add in there to make it more of

[40:08] a unique piece of content in the time

[40:11] frame has really been like working for

[40:13] us very well on on capturing more PAAs

[40:17] and getting better rank because they're

[40:18] just so hungry for the numbers.

[40:20] Yeah. For the personal injury lawyers

[40:22] that we've been doing ranges for the

[40:24] other problem that you'll run into is if

[40:25] you don't match the consensus. Like if

[40:27] you're like, "Oh yeah, your average

[40:28] settlement is $5 million and all the

[40:30] other lawyers are saying the average is

[40:31] 50,000." We've actually seen that as a

[40:33] blocker. Google won't actually give you

[40:35] the AI overview if your data is so

[40:37] different than everybody else's that

[40:39] they've got, which is annoying. But

[40:43] one one more question back here. So

[40:45] we've noticed that when you post on

[40:47] Google business profile with industry

[40:50] that includes if you put it through

[40:51] Google vision or Google's AI

[40:55] vision AI whatever API if it pulls the

[40:59] keywords out of the image that you're

[41:00] trying to rank for you'll notice you

[41:02] search like Austin or Chief all imagery

[41:06] will be it'll pull the teeth images in

[41:09] the top three. Yep.

[41:10] Same thing with car accident attorney

[41:12] keyword. I'm curious, are you guys

[41:15] seeing that be part of your strategy now

[41:17] the imagery for certain keywords to get

[41:20] that?

[41:21] We we haven't gone that far. Images we

[41:23] found are usually only a ranking factor

[41:25] in that case when you get a local pack

[41:27] with images. Whenever you get that then

[41:29] the images all of a sudden are weighted

[41:31] higher. Um I hate image packs though.

[41:34] They're in general they're just terrible

[41:36] because they remove call buttons on

[41:37] mobile. So, you will find the moment

[41:39] that those image packs roll out for your

[41:40] industry, which there was a whole

[41:41] whackload of industries that got them in

[41:43] the fall that didn't have them before,

[41:45] your calls in your business profile will

[41:47] drop and it's irritating. So, my

[41:49] solution actually, it's terrible. I

[41:51] actually hate saying this, but like for

[41:53] those clients that are like getting that

[41:55] loss of calls now, we're like, you

[41:56] should start running ads because the ads

[41:58] have the call button. And so, like I

[42:00] posted this on Reddit the other day and

[42:02] like people are like, "This isn't new,

[42:03] Joy." I'm like, "It's new because all

[42:04] these industries that didn't have this

[42:06] before now have it. And if you want a

[42:07] call button, your only way to get it is

[42:09] a is an ad. Not local service ads,

[42:11] traditional ads, your location assets,

[42:14] if you have one, and it shows up in the

[42:15] local pack. They have a website, a

[42:16] directions, and a call button, and

[42:18] nobody else has one.

[42:19] Has to be.

[42:20] Yeah. Yes. Yes. You can't do it with

[42:22] service area businesses.

[42:24] Yeah. Yes. I for I always forget that

[42:27] detail, but yeah, service area

[42:28] businesses just get screwed in every

[42:30] way. Yeah.

[42:33] Yeah. Joy, you mentioned that you saved

[42:34] the review emails. Did you also you were

[42:36] using a tool saved automatically or not.

[42:38] Yeah, we use Places Scout. They don't

[42:40] like I talk about them all the time like

[42:42] screenshots and stuff. They don't pay me

[42:43] to do that. Um, but they are a pretty

[42:45] clunky like old school tool that just

[42:47] got acquired by Yex, so who knows what's

[42:49] going to happen to it, but I know,

[42:51] sorry. Well, actually, we have some Yex

[42:52] lovers in the room. I've heard Yex a few

[42:54] times. Yeah.

[42:56] All right. All right. All right. Uh, I'm

[42:59] not a Yex fan. I think they charge way

[43:00] too much for their service. But um yeah,

[43:02] places scout just got acquired by X. So

[43:04] I think there's a bunch of upgrades

[43:05] coming. But what I like about them is

[43:07] they store everything. I can go back

[43:09] years ago and look at screenshots of

[43:11] SERs and see like that's that's what

[43:13] makes things make sense for me because

[43:14] I'm like, "Oh, this is what it looked

[43:16] like a year ago. This is what it looks

[43:17] like now. There was like two ads, now

[43:19] there's six. This would explain this,

[43:21] this, and this pattern." Um so they're

[43:23] big on data, which I feel like most

[43:25] tools don't do because it's expensive.

[43:27] places

[43:28] places scout.

[43:30] Yeah, it's really really awful UI. Just

[43:32] fair warning. Yeah.

[43:36] So, one thing that made me think about

[43:37] how much you need members um the GDP has

[43:41] found here

[43:44] that needs to be on your website too and

[43:47] quality service since 1947.

[43:51] Did you say that because you find Google

[43:52] changes it if it doesn't match your

[43:54] website?

[43:54] No, I'm just saying that's not our

[43:55] authority.

[43:59] Yeah, the year that you opened is one of

[44:01] the primary things that we are seeing in

[44:02] the description fields. Um, so the AI

[44:05] local packs that are surfacing on

[44:06] mobile, uh, they're only in the US and

[44:09] they're only on mobile and they're for

[44:10] about 8% of queries right now. They have

[44:12] descriptions that actually show up like

[44:13] in the local packs. So, I've been like

[44:15] obsessively looking at them and one of

[44:17] the biggest things they feature is

[44:18] anything with numbers. So, what year

[44:20] you've been open, uh, we were able to

[44:22] get like for a lawyer like how much

[44:24] they've been able to win, you know, when

[44:26] they're like, "Oh, we've recovered 50

[44:28] million in compensation, blah, blah,

[44:29] blah." We were able to get that in there

[44:30] because it's a number. Um, and Google

[44:32] wants it, but they're grabbing it from

[44:33] the website, not from the GMBB field,

[44:35] GBP.

[44:41] It should match. Yes. Anything

[44:42] everything should be the same. All

[44:45] again, basics, right? I want to pick

[44:47] back on. It's not what he mentioned

[44:49] about the image. Uh, let me just say it.

[44:53] You always put the keyword that you're

[44:55] trying to rank on the [ __ ] image. I

[44:59] don't care about nothing else, right?

[45:01] Except what they're talking about

[45:03] different, right? But if you want Google

[45:05] to read your images and know what the

[45:08] [ __ ] you're talking about on an entity

[45:10] level,

[45:11] you have to do that. That's why I even

[45:13] created my own tool for it, right? And

[45:15] I'll show a little bit of it tomorrow.

[45:17] You could do it free, but you got to do

[45:18] it one image at a time with Google

[45:20] Vision AI. Right? When you do that and

[45:22] you go to AI, the picture mode, you show

[45:26] up like almost easily, especially if

[45:28] it's a client that has any type of brand

[45:30] or authority. It's almost like easy

[45:32] case. I want

[45:33] Do you put in like size eight fonts at

[45:35] the very bottom? So, put it nice and

[45:36] big.

[45:37] I was like, then your competitors won't

[45:38] be able to like see it and copy you

[45:40] again.

[45:40] Yeah. No, I put it nice and big and they

[45:41] do copy Joy. And then half the time I go

[45:44] into AI overview since me and the old

[45:46] partner Brent of mine, put people on to

[45:48] that little hack. I just see people

[45:51] using the same thing and it's, you know,

[45:52] makes me feel good. It works. I wanted

[45:54] to ask you s if you don't mind. I

[45:56] thought I had messaged you this, but in

[45:58] my messenger I see I did.

[46:00] I'm not going to read all that out. Have

[46:01] you seen this these people in Miami?

[46:04] No.

[46:05] Hey, grab my phone real quick, right?

[46:06] And just look at these reviews when you

[46:08] get a chance.

[46:09] Are they just fake reviews?

[46:10] No. No. Oh,

[46:12] just check it out real quick. I'mma tell

[46:13] them. So, there's something I'm showing

[46:14] her, right? There's a car accident

[46:16] attorney Miami, right? The people

[46:18] ranking number one, 1.2K reviews. Just

[46:21] go look at their reviews. Nugget drop.

[46:25] All right.

[46:26] Which one is it? What's

[46:28] car attorney? And it's nothing to do

[46:30] with me. I don't know all these people.

[46:31] And I'll tell you what it is. It's

[46:33] photos, bro. They got pictures right in

[46:36] their office with the one of the

[46:37] attorneys with all types of different

[46:39] people and consistently.

[46:41] So did I like have you heard the story

[46:43] about photos when we were testing

[46:44] photos? So we did a test with um

[46:46] reviews. We wanted to know like what

[46:48] causes the order. So you know how like

[46:50] when you pull up a business, you'll get

[46:52] like a negative review stuck at the top

[46:53] and it's like eight months old and

[46:54] you're like how do I get that thing to

[46:56] like move down because it's like old. So

[46:58] they're not like ordered um

[47:00] chronologically. They use factors. So,

[47:02] we did a a test on a whole bunch of

[47:04] reviews. We tracked it for a year and a

[47:05] half, and I wanted to know what made the

[47:07] order change. Biggest thing is photos

[47:10] and reviews. So, the the I don't want to

[47:12] call it a hack, but like the the thing

[47:14] that we tested that was just

[47:15] mind-blowing to me is we had um we had a

[47:18] negative review come in from my agency

[47:20] because the guy couldn't get through on

[47:21] our phone lines. Our phone lines were

[47:22] down. And we're like, "This is the

[47:23] stupidest review." And of course, it's

[47:25] like the first thing that showed up. So,

[47:26] we're like, "Okay, we're going to try

[47:28] something." We emailed a client that

[47:29] left us a year a review two years ago

[47:31] and we said, "Can you just go add a

[47:32] photo to the review that you left us?"

[47:34] He goes and he adds a photo. The entire

[47:37] order changed. His came to the top even

[47:38] though it's a two-year-old review.

[47:40] Pushed the other ones like way down.

[47:42] That negative review wasn't even in the

[47:44] top 10 anymore. So photos are like crazy

[47:46] powerful. usually ends up the feature

[47:48] review usually.

[47:55] All right, talk about for a second, but

[47:58] this is what I feel like. So, we're

[48:00] doing it Mike's method for photo

[48:03] is text on the image. I've got the logo

[48:05] on there. I've got the phone number.

[48:07] Most my clients are multilocation, so

[48:10] there's some variance with those photos.

[48:12] And when I start like doing like uh an

[48:15] image audit, okay, and I start seeing

[48:17] that like dude, we're like completely

[48:19] for this keyword, it's nothing but my

[48:22] paa images,

[48:22] bro.

[48:24] It's freaking nuts.

[48:26] What I have seen talking out my ass. I

[48:29] feel like when I start dominating the

[48:32] image section, when you go to the image

[48:34] on the Google, I am also seeing organic

[48:37] rank increase and also map increase.

[48:40] Mhm.

[48:41] That's Hey, just to be clear, in that

[48:43] method that I taught, I told all y'all

[48:45] we doing this organic play with social,

[48:47] but it's to bring the maps up. Yeah.

[48:50] And that was before AI overview existing

[48:53] that you're dominating.

[48:55] You start seeing it lifting everything.

[48:58] What kind of queries are these for?

[49:00] Uh this Okay. So, like when we're doing

[49:02] a PAA, we're just putting in

[49:04] Okay.

[49:05] Okay. And then we get the PAA off of

[49:07] that and then we're creating a whole

[49:08] bunch of PAAs. Um, we do our I'm not

[49:11] going to spill like Mike's being on

[49:13] I'll show tomorrow.

[49:15] The PAAs are constantly ch changing.

[49:17] Okay. So, the PAA changes

[49:20] all throughout the entire day. So, we'll

[49:22] always do our PAAAS up to the second.

[49:25] We're going to that zip code or that GPS

[49:28] and GS location changer and we get that.

[49:31] Okay. So, we do it every time. It's not

[49:33] like we scrape a hundred. We don't do

[49:35] that. I think that's a huge issue

[49:37] because they change. All right.

[49:46] Car accident attorney Miami. They

[49:49] probably rank for car accident law. It

[49:51] probably ran for [ __ ] everything

[49:52] honestly. Just the way they doing that

[49:54] [ __ ] Any other questions for Joy?

[49:57] No. Sure. All right, everybody give it

[50:00] up for Joy.