# SEO Rockstars 2026: Day 2 - Joy Hawkins

**Video URL:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlKTqu-ntf0

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## Transcript

**[00:04]** Oh man, had never had an intro like that

**[00:06]** before. Thanks, Mike. Okay, so where do

**[00:08]** I have to stand to not have echo? All

**[00:10]** right, let's

**[00:12]** here.

**[00:13]** >> That's good. Okay. All right, so

**[00:15]** speaking of personal injury lawyers, I'm

**[00:18]** going to start with one. Uh, we had a

**[00:20]** client that when AI started really

**[00:23]** getting a lot of attention, this guy was

**[00:25]** like, "Man, I'm going to figure this AI

**[00:27]** thing out and I'm going to make all

**[00:28]** these pages for my website and I'm going

**[00:30]** to make them all different, but I'm

**[00:31]** going to target every single city in my

**[00:34]** entire state and I'm just going to

**[00:35]** create several hundred pages using AI

**[00:39]** and this is going to be, you know, great

**[00:40]** for my business." and he asked for my

**[00:42]** opinion expecting that I'm going to

**[00:44]** praise him and then I'm going to tell

**[00:45]** him this is a great idea and he's super

**[00:46]** smart and I'm like yeah I don't know if

**[00:49]** I do that. I'm like in fairness I

**[00:51]** haven't actually witnessed a lot of

**[00:52]** firms try this but I don't think it's

**[00:54]** going to work. He did not like that

**[00:56]** answer. He went ahead and published them

**[00:58]** anyway. And what's really funny is the

**[01:00]** day that he published them. We go into

**[01:02]** search console and we're kind of looking

**[01:04]** for increased traffic and this guy only

**[01:06]** had like maybe 200 pages on his site

**[01:09]** already. So he like doubled his site and

**[01:12]** you would think that you would have like

**[01:14]** this noticeable imp impact to his

**[01:16]** traffic. I will say that little increase

**[01:18]** had nothing to do with any of these

**[01:19]** pages like one page on his site that we

**[01:21]** had optimized. But basically nothing

**[01:23]** nothing happened. In fact the only

**[01:25]** metric that went up was the number of

**[01:26]** unindexed pages on his site. So this

**[01:30]** really didn't work. Um now if you're

**[01:32]** sitting here thinking that the problem

**[01:34]** is because you use AI, that is not it at

**[01:37]** all. Um, and I'm gonna explain. There

**[01:39]** was another case uh around the same time

**[01:41]** that reached out to me on the local

**[01:43]** search forum, which is a free online

**[01:45]** forum. It's actually, I think, where I

**[01:46]** met Brian. Um, and this guy reached out

**[01:48]** because he had a manual penalty on his

**[01:50]** site for thin content. I don't see this

**[01:53]** often in local SEO. It's pretty rare.

**[01:55]** So, I wanted to look at the site. So, I

**[01:56]** asked him if he could send me the site

**[01:57]** and I took a look. Basically, this guy

**[02:00]** had created thousands of pages, service

**[02:02]** area pages is what we call them, um,

**[02:04]** targeting different cities all over. or

**[02:06]** I believe he was in the UK and this is a

**[02:09]** screenshot showing like the warning he

**[02:10]** got. Um essentially his site tanked,

**[02:13]** everything um stopped ranking. He had

**[02:16]** these location pages literally

**[02:17]** everywhere. And the kicker with these

**[02:19]** was that he's like, "Joe, you don't

**[02:20]** understand." He's like, "Google's giving

**[02:22]** me this manual action, but like I had

**[02:24]** people handwrite these. I paid people to

**[02:26]** go into every page and make them

**[02:28]** different and like reword the content."

**[02:31]** I was like, "Dude, this is such a

**[02:32]** terrible strategy." Because the problem

**[02:34]** isn't like you don't need to go, you

**[02:36]** know, change red to maroon or blue to

**[02:38]** navy. That is not exactly what Google is

**[02:40]** going after when they talk about what

**[02:42]** kind of content you should write. Um,

**[02:43]** and this guy did all that and he still

**[02:46]** got screwed. Um, so what we want to talk

**[02:49]** about today is this concept of good

**[02:51]** content. Like what exactly is Google

**[02:52]** looking for? Because I hate it when

**[02:54]** people just say, "Oh, make good content.

**[02:55]** It's the stupidest thing ever." Uh, what

**[02:57]** Google really is trying to do is figure

**[02:59]** out like, okay, there's a lot of garbage

**[03:00]** out there that AI is producing. There's

**[03:02]** a lot of good stuff and Google's trying

**[03:04]** to figure out what which is which. Um,

**[03:07]** and if there's any site that is doing

**[03:09]** this well, this would be Reddit. Now,

**[03:11]** Reddit is one that I've been keeping a

**[03:13]** really close eye on because they have

**[03:14]** just surged in a way that I've never

**[03:16]** seen before. Um, when you look at their

**[03:18]** traffic trends over the last few years,

**[03:20]** it's actually insane. Uh, I don't see

**[03:22]** too many sites that look like this at

**[03:24]** the magnitude that they have. We're

**[03:26]** talking like millions and millions and

**[03:27]** millions of visitors. Uh, their stock

**[03:29]** price isn't doing so bad either. Um, but

**[03:32]** basically the other reason why we are

**[03:34]** really paying attention to Reddit is

**[03:36]** they are one of the top sources for LLMs

**[03:38]** as well. So there's kind of a big

**[03:40]** trifecta here. Um, I think I never heard

**[03:43]** Reddit spoke about at any conference

**[03:44]** that I ever went to a few years ago. Now

**[03:47]** tons of people are talking about them.

**[03:49]** Um, and the good news is I'm not here

**[03:51]** going to talk about like necessarily

**[03:52]** like how to get on Reddit. I have a tiny

**[03:53]** bit of that, but like it's more like

**[03:55]** what are they doing? Why in the world

**[03:56]** does Google want to surface Reddit so

**[03:58]** much? Um, can you do that with your

**[04:00]** website? I've kind of broken it down

**[04:02]** into six steps that I'm going to go

**[04:04]** through and reasons how Reddit works,

**[04:07]** but also that you can apply to your own

**[04:08]** site. So, the first one is actually

**[04:10]** really simple, but something that I just

**[04:12]** don't see businesses doing ever, which

**[04:14]** is using stories for content. So, what

**[04:17]** we often see on Reddit is people will

**[04:19]** talk about their problems, right?

**[04:21]** They'll be like, you know, long novel.

**[04:23]** This is all the things that I had happen

**[04:25]** to me. Um, I moderate quite a few

**[04:27]** subreddits and this is literally what we

**[04:29]** get. Um, so we're like, how do we figure

**[04:31]** out how to do this for our clients? So,

**[04:33]** first up, we had a criminal lawyer. So,

**[04:35]** basically what we did is we asked them,

**[04:36]** can you give us all the details of like

**[04:38]** various cases that you did? Uh, tell us,

**[04:40]** you know, the details of the DUI. Maybe

**[04:43]** uh you shouldn't be driving if you have

**[04:44]** a fifth DUI from meth. I don't know.

**[04:46]** Just saying. But this is a guy that he

**[04:48]** helped and he talked about all about how

**[04:51]** basically he got the case thrown out

**[04:53]** because the evidence wasn't handled

**[04:54]** correctly by the cops and um talked

**[04:57]** about like the fines and all the

**[04:58]** numbers. We've been talking about

**[05:00]** numbers here. Google really loves

**[05:01]** numbers. If you are a lawyer and you put

**[05:03]** numbers on your page, uh it's kind of

**[05:05]** crazy what we what we see happen with

**[05:06]** that. So the cool thing is is this helps

**[05:09]** organic rankings. It helps local pack

**[05:11]** rankings. All we did was add a story um

**[05:14]** with the details. We repeated this

**[05:17]** concept on a different client which was

**[05:18]** a dentist. Um, same kind of thing. We

**[05:21]** were like, "Okay, let's get a story of a

**[05:22]** patient that you helped. Give us the

**[05:24]** details. Leave out the names obviously

**[05:25]** for privacy reasons." And the cool thing

**[05:28]** was adding this story to his site not

**[05:29]** only increased his traffic and rankings,

**[05:31]** it also increased his conversions, which

**[05:33]** is clearly all that matters. A painter

**[05:36]** was even easier. Um, in this case, we

**[05:38]** basically just like before and after

**[05:40]** photos. How much was the job? How long

**[05:42]** did it take you to paint this house?

**[05:44]** Like, are we talking weeks? Are we

**[05:45]** talking months? Like, you know, give me

**[05:47]** numbers, time frame. Um, and this

**[05:49]** basically took this page from nothing to

**[05:52]** actually ranking and starting to get

**[05:53]** traffic and leads. Personal injury

**[05:56]** lawyer. We tried two different things.

**[05:57]** Again, I have a lot of clients that just

**[05:59]** really want to use AI for writing. Um,

**[06:01]** and they're like again, okay, Joy, I'm

**[06:04]** gonna different client, also a personal

**[06:05]** injury lawyer, but was like, I'm gonna

**[06:07]** have uh AI write some content, then have

**[06:09]** my lawyers approve it. Um, check it for

**[06:11]** accuracy, and then we'll publish them.

**[06:12]** And I'm like, h I don't know, guys.

**[06:14]** We've been down this road before. This

**[06:16]** is how their a content performed. Not

**[06:18]** really great. Um, and even when they

**[06:20]** tried to add it to like existing pages

**[06:22]** to see if that would lift it. Yeah. Not

**[06:24]** so much. This is a page that we actually

**[06:26]** used a case that they worked on. So,

**[06:29]** real stories, those actually worked. And

**[06:32]** to give you an idea, like this will help

**[06:34]** them rank as well for just lawyer terms,

**[06:36]** like the really, really good terms that

**[06:37]** people want to rank for. Um, it would

**[06:39]** had a very significant impact. Now, this

**[06:42]** is really easy because anybody can do

**[06:44]** it. The way that we are doing it on my

**[06:46]** agency is we have interviews with our

**[06:48]** clients every month. We try to get them

**[06:49]** on the phone. We have the questions

**[06:51]** listed out, which I'm going to show you

**[06:52]** how to get those. And we ask them and we

**[06:54]** make sure that we dig so that they give

**[06:56]** us those like semantically relevant

**[06:58]** things because that is what's helping

**[07:00]** the ranking here. It's not necessarily

**[07:01]** just the story. It's like if you're

**[07:03]** talking about a DUI, you need things

**[07:05]** like alcohol or meth or a fifth DUI or

**[07:08]** police or all those words that Google

**[07:10]** associates with getting a DUI. Um, and

**[07:13]** those naturally will come out in client

**[07:15]** stories. So, we interview the clients,

**[07:17]** we record it, we have the transcript, we

**[07:18]** use that transcript to come up with

**[07:20]** content. It's actually a pretty simple

**[07:21]** process, one that anybody can implement.

**[07:24]** >> Great.

**[07:26]** So the lawyer was using AI. So was he

**[07:30]** not taking some of the core documents

**[07:33]** putting that into like hey these are the

**[07:35]** court documents for this and he was mean

**[07:38]** doing that.

**[07:39]** >> I I don't think any of my clients are

**[07:40]** smart enough to to do that to be

**[07:42]** completely honest. Yeah. No most of

**[07:44]** these guys that I talk to and like

**[07:45]** business owners really like to think

**[07:47]** they can do SEO themselves. Like we we

**[07:49]** work with a lot of those types. We tend

**[07:51]** to attract businesses that research SEO

**[07:54]** and have watched our YouTube channel and

**[07:55]** things like that.

**[07:59]** >> Like when you do a case,

**[08:02]** you have PDFs from like the like case

**[08:05]** that you're working on, you know, at its

**[08:08]** conclusion stuff. You take those that

**[08:11]** stuff, throw it in there, and you think,

**[08:13]** can you like spit out a decent story

**[08:16]** like she's suggesting?

**[08:17]** >> So, I think there two answers that

**[08:19]** question.

**[08:23]** bike.

**[08:26]** >> Here we go.

**[08:28]** >> This is a great conversation.

**[08:34]** >> I think they're Oh, so they know that

**[08:37]** the people on the call can say, "Hey,

**[08:39]** I'm actually an attorney."

**[08:41]** >> Yeah, I stated a holiday in last night,

**[08:44]** but I'm an actual attorney.

**[08:48]** does not make sense.

**[08:52]** >> I I definitely think you can do that

**[08:54]** with some caveats depending on what your

**[08:57]** jurisdiction is and what your law is

**[08:59]** where you do. We have some restrictions

**[09:01]** in the jurisdiction I practice in that

**[09:04]** we can't disclose documents even to our

**[09:06]** clients. Uh we can't do that. So there's

**[09:09]** a way that you need to make sure that

**[09:11]** you're as the attorney that you protect

**[09:14]** yourself and your bar license. But we do

**[09:16]** interviews like that and try to get that

**[09:19]** data. And I was going to say this

**[09:22]** another time, but I probably won't talk

**[09:23]** again. Uh for those of you haven't used

**[09:26]** Joy, we used Joy, my law firm. Um and we

**[09:31]** lost our Google businesses last summer

**[09:33]** was instrumental in helping get the uh

**[09:37]** the

**[09:38]** >> What's your law firm? Look, I had no

**[09:40]** idea.

**[09:41]** >> You don't even know me. I get it.

**[09:45]** Sorry.

**[09:47]** That's amazing. All right, we'll have to

**[09:48]** talk after you tell me. That's

**[09:49]** hilarious.

**[09:51]** Um, yeah, and just to clarify, like I'm

**[09:53]** not anti-AI content. I definitely hate

**[09:55]** chat GBT. I'll throw that. I know that

**[09:57]** there was some comments yesterday about

**[09:58]** that. We have found that the content

**[10:00]** that's coming from chat GBT lately is

**[10:01]** utter trash. Like it is really bad. And

**[10:03]** I do think that's what most of these

**[10:05]** guys were using was chat. Um, and I

**[10:08]** think the other problem is like the

**[10:09]** reason why customer stories work so well

**[10:10]** is they are they were unique, but they

**[10:12]** have all the details that Google wants.

**[10:14]** And we've tried various like variations

**[10:16]** of this, even like transcribing calls

**[10:17]** and throwing it into chat GBT. And the

**[10:20]** problem is the semantics. It's really

**[10:21]** bad at it. And I picked uh Kyle Roof's

**[10:24]** brain because I had him on our YouTube

**[10:25]** channel. And he was like, yeah. He's

**[10:26]** like, LLMs are really bad with

**[10:28]** semantics. And he's like, maybe they'll

**[10:30]** get better with time. He's like, but if

**[10:31]** you're missing that, you know, the the

**[10:33]** the triples, all that stuff, it doesn't

**[10:35]** do that naturally. And I think that that

**[10:38]** um that business that I was talking

**[10:40]** about, actually both of them, fact that

**[10:41]** they're rewarding their content, they're

**[10:43]** they're losing all that value. Like

**[10:45]** they're taking their best content,

**[10:46]** they're rewarding it. They're actually

**[10:47]** making it worse. Um so there's there's a

**[10:50]** lot of things at play here, but I found

**[10:51]** the story angle just works better than

**[10:54]** almost any content strategy we've tried.

**[10:56]** And it's something any business can do,

**[10:57]** which is great.

**[11:02]** >> Yes.

**[11:04]** >> Sorry.

**[11:07]** Where are you placing the stories?

**[11:10]** >> Yeah, that's actually a great question.

**[11:11]** So, that's another thing people often do

**[11:13]** wrong. They have like a case studies.

**[11:14]** This is typical for lawyers. They'll

**[11:16]** have like a cases page. You don't want

**[11:18]** it on a cases page. You want it on the

**[11:19]** page about that topic. So, if you're

**[11:21]** trying to rank for like fifth DUI and

**[11:24]** that story about the fifth DUI you would

**[11:25]** want on your fifth DUI page.

**[11:32]** >> Yeah. Dead. You don't want that. It's

**[11:34]** the worst. No, my plumbers, they want

**[11:36]** it.

**[11:40]** >> Well, put it there too then. Make them

**[11:42]** happy and then also put it on their

**[11:43]** other pages.

**[11:46]** >> Yeah, just do both.

**[11:48]** >> Yeah.

**[11:52]** >> Uh I'm trying to think if I have link

**[11:54]** building in here. Uh the link built like

**[11:55]** link building to the stories. All this

**[11:57]** is

**[12:01]** >> that would

**[12:04]** >> I don't think so. I don't think that

**[12:05]** link building would have any impact on

**[12:06]** this either way. A lot of these pages

**[12:08]** >> like for the anchor text I'm sorry

**[12:10]** >> for the anchor text like on in the

**[12:12]** content or you talking about like links

**[12:14]** coming to the page

**[12:15]** >> coming to the page. Do you anything that

**[12:18]** would help like storytelling links?

**[12:21]** >> Um not really. The one thing that we we

**[12:23]** definitely use like anchored links but

**[12:25]** at a very small scale which that's a

**[12:28]** pattern I've been w I'm not talking

**[12:29]** about that today but pattern I've been

**[12:30]** like observing with businesses

**[12:32]** especially small businesses um that are

**[12:34]** getting nailed by the core updates a lot

**[12:36]** of them have heavily used anchored links

**[12:38]** that are like not branded like you know

**[12:41]** best plumber in Seattle 500 times but

**[12:43]** like even like 15 times Google's

**[12:45]** starting to pick up on so we're starting

**[12:46]** to see that the volume that you can do

**[12:49]** it's like oh that's yeah

**[12:56]** Yeah,

**[12:57]** >> I got

**[12:59]** I got my

**[13:01]** >> So all these games I'm talking about

**[13:02]** were strictly content. There was no link

**[13:03]** building at play in any of them.

**[13:06]** >> I was just ask on Reddit when you had

**[13:10]** Google train

**[13:12]** on the Reddit stuff. So would you

**[13:14]** actually if the lawyer gives you back a

**[13:15]** story but it's kind of bland or dry,

**[13:18]** would you then rewide it? Like would you

**[13:20]** would you scrape the Reddit some sort of

**[13:21]** icon from a pattern and then redo the

**[13:23]** story turning just to make sure all the

**[13:25]** various entities or whatever are in

**[13:26]** there or you take the story straight

**[13:28]** because the intern

**[13:30]** uh compliance issues.

**[13:31]** >> We we definitely add the entities. That

**[13:33]** step is super important but most of the

**[13:34]** time it'll get them a lot of them but

**[13:36]** certainly uh and again these ones we

**[13:38]** didn't but that's usually the next step

**[13:40]** is we will go in and add anything that's

**[13:42]** missing. Um as long as it doesn't change

**[13:44]** the meaning of the story we're just you

**[13:45]** know making the words a little better.

**[13:48]** No problem. Um, so I also want to talk

**[13:51]** about word count because this is

**[13:52]** something especially in a lot of the

**[13:54]** conferences I've attended over the last

**[13:55]** like five years, you hear a lot of

**[13:57]** people talking about how your content

**[13:58]** needs to be very long and very in-depth

**[14:00]** and you have these terms like 10x

**[14:02]** content um that have been really popular

**[14:04]** in the SEO industry. Um, we're seeing

**[14:06]** that that is less and less true uh these

**[14:09]** days that content doesn't need to

**[14:10]** necessarily be long and especially with

**[14:12]** the way that LMS are chopping stuff up

**[14:14]** actually sometimes shorter is better.

**[14:16]** Um, this is just one test. We've done a

**[14:18]** lot of tests on this. We had a realtor

**[14:19]** and like they're notorious for having

**[14:22]** stupid long content. It's kind of just

**[14:23]** as bad as recipe sites. And so they had

**[14:26]** like, you know, 4,000 words is too much

**[14:29]** for a real estate article. They had

**[14:31]** things like real estate prices, things

**[14:33]** to do nearby, commuting, all this crap

**[14:34]** obviously that as SEOs we add because

**[14:36]** we're like, this is helpful. Um, one of

**[14:39]** the things that kind of makes me

**[14:40]** obsessed with this concept is calculator

**[14:42]** pages. I love looking at calculator

**[14:44]** pages that rank for things like alimony

**[14:46]** calculator or child support calculator

**[14:48]** that have no content on them

**[14:50]** >> and they still rank and I'm like okay so

**[14:52]** if content is all you need then how does

**[14:54]** this page rank and they have no links

**[14:55]** either most of them um calculators are

**[14:58]** one of the things that we have seen

**[15:01]** really great success from um again they

**[15:03]** work really well with lawyers but

**[15:05]** there's other industries you can do them

**[15:06]** like mortgage and even like in home

**[15:08]** services if there's like cost

**[15:09]** calculators and things like that you

**[15:11]** don't need content you just add a

**[15:12]** calculator to the page and this is what

**[15:14]** will happen to traffic for calculator

**[15:16]** terms. So, this was also a lawyer. This

**[15:18]** one was a family lawyer. Um, and the

**[15:20]** great thing is is you can like reuse

**[15:22]** that that code or whatever on lots of

**[15:24]** different um sites. You just have to

**[15:26]** make sure the calculations are correct,

**[15:27]** but like simple prompts can grab you the

**[15:29]** code for this. Uh, I love stuff like

**[15:31]** this because I am not a technical SEO. I

**[15:33]** employ a lot of those. Please don't ask

**[15:35]** me like super technical questions.

**[15:36]** There's many other people here that can

**[15:38]** answer those way better than I can. Um,

**[15:41]** but when it comes to the content side,

**[15:42]** we have just found that more is not

**[15:44]** better. In the case of the realtor, when

**[15:45]** we removed like half their content, the

**[15:47]** rankings didn't drop. And then

**[15:49]** additionally, we've seen lots of cases

**[15:50]** where we add that much content and it

**[15:51]** doesn't improve. Um, so I personally,

**[15:54]** and I know there's SEOs that disagree

**[15:55]** with me on this, I don't like having

**[15:57]** word count as a KPI. I hate it when

**[15:59]** content writers ask me how many words

**[16:00]** they I'm like, as many as you need.

**[16:02]** Please don't ask me to give you a number

**[16:03]** to hit or you'll just usually end up

**[16:05]** with garbage. Um, now this is one

**[16:07]** obviously that's like kind of the thing

**[16:09]** that I feel like will be the best if you

**[16:12]** can figure out the answer to this

**[16:13]** question. How do you figure out what

**[16:15]** content to write? Because pretty much

**[16:17]** Google has articles on every topic. Uh,

**[16:19]** it is getting harder and harder to get

**[16:20]** your content indexed if you aren't

**[16:22]** giving them something they don't have.

**[16:24]** Um, so we've completely changed how we

**[16:27]** decide this. Like when I started in SEO,

**[16:29]** the way that you would do this is what's

**[16:31]** called a content gap analysis. And

**[16:33]** you'll see this in a lot of tools like

**[16:34]** AHF, Samrush, all these tools have stuff

**[16:36]** like this. And what you do is you go and

**[16:38]** you grab your competitor's site and you

**[16:40]** put it in, it tells you all the topics

**[16:42]** your competitor has and then you write

**[16:43]** about those topics. That doesn't work

**[16:46]** anymore because the problem is if you're

**[16:48]** simply writing all the crap your

**[16:49]** competitor has, why would Google index

**[16:51]** you? Why would they outrank your

**[16:52]** competitor when it's just like verbatim

**[16:54]** what they basically have already given

**[16:55]** Google? So, what we've been using um is

**[16:58]** this tool that Steve Toth created uh and

**[17:01]** I know Mike loves his PAAs. So, this is

**[17:03]** a a tool if you haven't seen it that uh

**[17:05]** basically you put it in your browser.

**[17:06]** It's free and it'll scrape the SER and

**[17:09]** it'll give you in a spreadsheet a list

**[17:10]** of all the PAAs people also ask. So,

**[17:13]** again, we're talking about this section

**[17:15]** here just in case anyone's not familiar

**[17:17]** with the term. It'll give you a giant

**[17:19]** list of hundreds of things to write

**[17:20]** about. Um and you can go through there.

**[17:22]** You will obviously have to dduplicate a

**[17:24]** few. There are some repetitive ones. Um,

**[17:26]** but this has been really really crucial

**[17:28]** for trying to define like basically what

**[17:30]** kinds of questions we are asking people

**[17:32]** to put on their site. There's a paid

**[17:35]** version that I'm currently testing. Kind

**[17:37]** of on the fence. It's good for giving

**[17:38]** you really outside ideas like things

**[17:40]** that maybe your competitors don't have,

**[17:42]** but it's kind of pricey. Um, AHS has

**[17:44]** this AI content helper tool. Um, and

**[17:46]** it'll go really deep. Like I tried this

**[17:49]** for lawn care and it was giving me like

**[17:51]** 15 different things that could be

**[17:52]** problems with like a yellow lawn. Um and

**[17:55]** I could go through them individually and

**[17:56]** ask the guy like individually about

**[17:58]** every single one. Of course, once you

**[18:01]** have content, the thing that you want is

**[18:03]** conversions. You want content that's

**[18:05]** actually going to convert. So what's the

**[18:06]** the angle here? Well, a lot of people

**[18:08]** will say images, right? They'll say like

**[18:10]** you need images on your content that

**[18:11]** helps conversions. Um but the problem

**[18:13]** with small businesses is they really

**[18:14]** suck at this. Um, if you run an agency,

**[18:17]** you probably know, you ask your clients

**[18:18]** for images, they're like, "Yeah, yeah,

**[18:19]** I'll get those to you." And then two

**[18:21]** weeks go by, a month goes by, two months

**[18:22]** go by, you don't get anything. That's at

**[18:24]** least been my experience. Now, when AI

**[18:26]** images first came out, I thought this

**[18:27]** was going to be the golden solution to

**[18:29]** everybody's problems. So, we really like

**[18:31]** dove into this. And um, this example

**[18:33]** that I'm going to show you here was

**[18:34]** actually a garage door repair business.

**[18:36]** We were like, okay, you could easily use

**[18:38]** AI to create a garage door. I could get

**[18:40]** every color of garage door, every style.

**[18:42]** Actually, the images of the the fake

**[18:44]** garage doors look better than the real

**[18:45]** ones. Um, and we would add them to

**[18:47]** client sites and they would have traffic

**[18:49]** lifts. Now, it looks even better when

**[18:51]** you look at image traffic. Uh, image

**[18:53]** traffic went up as well. So,

**[18:54]** everything's great here except Google

**[18:57]** made an update and they figured out how

**[19:00]** to tell if it's an AI image or a real

**[19:02]** image. Um, now again, like there's some

**[19:05]** industries where this doesn't matter. If

**[19:06]** your site is about unicorns, they

**[19:08]** probably don't care. But when it came to

**[19:10]** like home services and a lot of the

**[19:11]** industries that we work with, we saw the

**[19:14]** same trend. Basically, they rolled out

**[19:15]** this update that kind of killed the

**[19:18]** benefit of AI images and we went back to

**[19:20]** like some that we were testing on and we

**[19:22]** saw the same pattern like all the gains

**[19:24]** we got reversed when Google did this and

**[19:27]** this was about a year ago. Um, so that

**[19:29]** was kind of frustrating. Um, but they do

**[19:30]** have a way to detect AI images and they

**[19:33]** weight them differently. This was the

**[19:34]** image traffic same exact uh site. So, if

**[19:37]** you are using AI images, I would just

**[19:39]** really be careful about measuring um

**[19:41]** what impact they're having, if any,

**[19:42]** because we were originally seeing really

**[19:44]** awesome gains from them. And then we saw

**[19:46]** most of those gains getting reversed.

**[19:49]** So, then I'm like, okay, back to the

**[19:50]** drawing board. What kind of images do we

**[19:52]** need to be adding to this site um to

**[19:54]** make it do well? We decided to do a

**[19:56]** small sample of some of our clients. I

**[19:57]** went through and we found in various

**[20:00]** different industries pages that had

**[20:02]** images that were actually getting leads.

**[20:04]** And I was like, okay, I'm going to look

**[20:05]** and see like are there any trends or

**[20:06]** patterns I can see amongst these images

**[20:09]** to figure out uh what types of images

**[20:11]** are actually going to perform better.

**[20:14]** Was not expecting this outcome. First up

**[20:16]** on the list when it came to number of

**[20:18]** clicks was infographics. And I was like

**[20:20]** for real like what decade are we in

**[20:22]** here? I do not want to be talking about

**[20:23]** infographics in this presentation. But

**[20:26]** this is actually what we found when we

**[20:27]** sampled our clients. And I'm going to

**[20:28]** give you some examples because these

**[20:29]** aren't like AI generated infographics. A

**[20:31]** lot of them were uh ones that they had

**[20:33]** somebody custom make. Although I think

**[20:35]** some of the tools we're testing now are

**[20:37]** are actually good enough you could

**[20:38]** probably do this with an AI um tool.

**[20:41]** This was one that was a uh criminal

**[20:43]** lawyer and they basically had this whole

**[20:45]** article talking about gun- rellated

**[20:47]** homicides and he broke it down by state

**[20:48]** and then he made this pretty graphic to

**[20:50]** kind of show you which states were more

**[20:52]** problematic. This thing gets links, it

**[20:54]** gets clicks, um it does really really

**[20:56]** well. So those database studies that

**[20:58]** while it's really uh timeconuming

**[21:01]** strategy that still works. This was a

**[21:03]** less pretty one for an electrician. Uh I

**[21:05]** can't believe this thing got clicked.

**[21:06]** It's so pixelated and it was like from

**[21:08]** 2015. Um but this thing it was like one

**[21:11]** of the highest drivers of clicks on his

**[21:13]** site. Um so certainly something that is

**[21:15]** easy to replicate. This was one one of

**[21:18]** my staff created. Super easy uh simple

**[21:20]** but it was for a dentist just talking

**[21:22]** about the different types of cracked

**[21:23]** teeth. um and one of their top

**[21:25]** performing pages and highest traffic for

**[21:28]** um anything to do with teeth. Um when it

**[21:32]** came for best by conversion rate by

**[21:34]** conversion rate, the highest converting

**[21:36]** rate on all the images we looked at were

**[21:38]** images of bugs. Now, I will clarify this

**[21:40]** was mainly for tree uh tree services and

**[21:42]** pest control businesses. And I think

**[21:44]** there's still a lesson here if you don't

**[21:45]** work with any of those industries um

**[21:47]** showing problems, right? Like the thing

**[21:49]** with the tree care is like you want to

**[21:51]** see the problem in your tree. You want

**[21:52]** to see if it matches what you're seeing.

**[21:54]** And I can tell you with bugs, it's gross

**[21:56]** as it is, uh, if you have a bug problem,

**[21:58]** you want to know what kind of bug you're

**[22:00]** looking at. And I can tell you from

**[22:02]** experience, chat, JBT will not give you

**[22:04]** the right answer. So, please don't use

**[22:05]** it. I'm not going to show you an example

**[22:07]** of that picture. I'll save you all. So,

**[22:08]** here's just a blank slide. We're not

**[22:10]** going to look at bugs. When it came to

**[22:12]** the best by the number of conversions,

**[22:13]** so if you looked at the ones that had

**[22:15]** the highest number of conversions, they

**[22:16]** were photos of people. So, it turns out

**[22:18]** that human beings do still at some rate

**[22:21]** like genuine. this, which I think is

**[22:22]** hopefully a good thing. Um, but

**[22:24]** basically those are the kind of images

**[22:25]** that you would want. Now, um, an SEO tip

**[22:29]** that I'm going to come up with next

**[22:30]** actually helps not only with Google,

**[22:33]** also really helps with chat GBT as well.

**[22:36]** Um, and this is one of the reasons why

**[22:38]** people like Reddit. Now, you might argue

**[22:39]** Reddit is full of crap and garbage and

**[22:41]** uh, lots of people lying and promoting

**[22:43]** their own stuff, but it's also heavily

**[22:45]** moderated. So, I'd say as far as all the

**[22:47]** social platforms go, uh, I think it's

**[22:49]** the place that I go to where I want like

**[22:52]** nonpaid for answers. Um, because people

**[22:55]** are genuinely looking for experiences.

**[22:58]** So, this strategy was not one that um, I

**[23:00]** came up with. It was one again from

**[23:02]** Steve Toth. So, if you don't know Steve

**[23:04]** or his newsletter, he's a fellow

**[23:06]** Canadian, really smart SEO. And what I

**[23:08]** like about his newsletter is he gives

**[23:09]** you all these like actionable tips. So,

**[23:11]** when they come out, I try to like test

**[23:12]** every single one of them, see if we can

**[23:14]** make it work for our clients. This was

**[23:16]** one that worked very well. So in his

**[23:18]** newsletter, Steve talked about um how he

**[23:21]** noticed this particular company that was

**[23:23]** just dominating on chat GBT. When you

**[23:25]** search for best project management

**[23:27]** software, this one business kept showing

**[23:29]** up over and over and over. He's like,

**[23:30]** "What are these guys doing?" So he looks

**[23:32]** at their site on Google and he realizes

**[23:34]** that in all their title tags, for all

**[23:36]** their reviews page pages, all they were

**[23:38]** doing was adding the word honest to

**[23:40]** their title. Okay,

**[23:42]** >> this shouldn't work. This is too too

**[23:44]** easy. I'm like, nah. like come on, this

**[23:46]** can't be this easy. So, we did it on

**[23:48]** several client sites. We had clients uh

**[23:50]** this was also a garage door repair one

**[23:51]** where they were comparing two different

**[23:52]** brands. All we did was add the word

**[23:54]** honest review. That's it. Uh I think we

**[23:56]** added title and H1 and their traffic

**[23:58]** went up. Another page traffic went up a

**[24:01]** lot. Another one traffic went up. We're

**[24:04]** like this is too easy guys. Like it

**[24:06]** should not be this simple. Um, so

**[24:09]** basically what why I think this works so

**[24:11]** well is when you do a search on Google

**[24:12]** for brand press plus the word reviews,

**[24:15]** what we have found that Google will

**[24:16]** normally do is for whatever reason, they

**[24:19]** will rank that brand site first. So if I

**[24:22]** want to see Sterling Sky reviews,

**[24:23]** they'll actually rank Sterling Sky site

**[24:25]** first. Stupidest thing ever, but that is

**[24:27]** currently what Google does. Then

**[24:28]** generally if they have a Reddit, they

**[24:30]** will show Reddit. That is like next. Um,

**[24:33]** and then basically we were taking the

**[24:36]** third spot for this particular brand

**[24:38]** with our honest review page. So I'm

**[24:39]** like, okay, I'm not going to beat the

**[24:41]** brand and I'm not going to beat Reddit.

**[24:42]** I'll take third place. Pretty good. Um,

**[24:44]** so this strategy works really well. Uh,

**[24:46]** and again, it's crazy that the word

**[24:48]** honest seems to be kind of like magical.

**[24:50]** Um, I don't find a lot of strategies

**[24:52]** that work that are that quick to

**[24:53]** implement. Um, but this kind of begs the

**[24:56]** question about like, okay, let's

**[24:58]** actually end this by talking about like

**[24:59]** what to do about your own brand. um how

**[25:02]** do you get better for that? So this is

**[25:04]** where you do actually want to use

**[25:06]** Reddit. Like I said, we are seeing more

**[25:08]** and more for small businesses that like

**[25:10]** it is the highest ranking site for like

**[25:13]** reputation. When people ask about like

**[25:15]** brand plus reviews, Reddit is usually

**[25:18]** there way more than it used to be a few

**[25:20]** years ago. So people don't often think

**[25:22]** of Reddit as a review site. We talk

**[25:23]** about Yelp, we talk about Facebook or

**[25:25]** Home Advisor, whatever. But I'm like,

**[25:26]** "No, guys. Like don't forget about

**[25:28]** Reddit. somebody posts on Reddit about

**[25:29]** your brand, it's going to rank and that

**[25:31]** could be either good or bad for you.

**[25:33]** Like in here are these examples. Uh you

**[25:35]** know, when we search for Mr.

**[25:36]** Beastburgers, uh you get this giant

**[25:38]** Reddit thread and it's I love how Google

**[25:40]** like puts in like all caps the negative

**[25:43]** stuff. Like it's really not worth the

**[25:45]** price like screaming at you. Or there's

**[25:48]** these guys who's like, "What are they

**[25:49]** highlighting in bolding? They effed up

**[25:51]** my lawn." Um that's literally what

**[25:53]** Google decides to put in bold. And then

**[25:55]** in this case, they're, you know,

**[25:56]** highlighting terrible service, complete

**[25:57]** incompetence, and zero accountability.

**[25:59]** These are all real brands, right? How do

**[26:02]** you deal with this? Like, if you're a

**[26:03]** brand, we've got lots of clients that

**[26:04]** are bigger that are in this scenario

**[26:07]** where they have uh very angry people on

**[26:09]** Reddit talking about them. So, our

**[26:11]** solution to this is to go do an AMA on

**[26:14]** Reddit. And most people are doing this

**[26:16]** because they don't realize it's actually

**[26:17]** pretty easy to do one. Um, I actually

**[26:19]** moderate quite a few subreddits. Um, we

**[26:22]** are looking for AMAs all the time. Like

**[26:24]** if you have a lawyer that wants to do an

**[26:25]** AMA or if you have a HVAC company, uh

**[26:28]** please like talk to me. I've got a few

**[26:30]** that like we are literally looking for

**[26:31]** these because they work really well on

**[26:33]** Reddit. They get a lot of activity. They

**[26:35]** get a lot of comments and that is the

**[26:37]** exact thing you need for a thread to

**[26:38]** rank. So the best way to do that is to

**[26:40]** do an AMA. So I've been doing them like

**[26:42]** almost monthly for my brand on different

**[26:45]** subreddits. Um you will see now again

**[26:47]** like when you search Sterling Sky

**[26:49]** reviews, we get one of the AMAs that I

**[26:51]** did on Reddit. Um, and my site is first

**[26:54]** and then the AMA is second. And the site

**[26:58]** being first is really simple. And I I

**[26:59]** gotta say like almost every small

**[27:01]** business that we audit isn't doing this

**[27:03]** when we first talk to them. They have a

**[27:05]** testimonials page that has testimonials

**[27:07]** as the title. And I'm like, nobody

**[27:09]** searches testimonials. People do search

**[27:11]** reviews. All you have to do is basically

**[27:13]** change your testimonials page to have

**[27:16]** reviews instead and all of a sudden you

**[27:18]** will take that number one spot for your

**[27:19]** brand plus reviews. So, it's again

**[27:22]** stupid easy. Um, between those two

**[27:24]** strategies, you can kind of own the top

**[27:26]** two spots um and hopefully not have

**[27:28]** those negative Reddit threads. Um,

**[27:31]** that's all I've got for today. These are

**[27:33]** all the millions of places that you can

**[27:34]** find me, but I'll be around for

**[27:36]** questions as well.

**[27:43]** >> Thank you. Thank you. Question.

**[27:47]** Can you tell me two questions for you?

**[27:50]** one, uh, you have to dumb it down for me

**[27:52]** a little bit, right? Uh, can you explain

**[27:54]** to us what an AMA is for those of us

**[27:56]** that don't know what it is? And two,

**[28:00]** we have a review page and we have a

**[28:04]** testimonial page. And the testimonial is

**[28:06]** all videos that clients will give us.

**[28:08]** So, is there a suggestion that we

**[28:10]** combine those two and just call it a

**[28:12]** review page?

**[28:13]** >> Yeah, 100% combine them. Um,

**[28:16]** >> for the AMA, sorry, I should have

**[28:18]** defined that. I I really try not to use

**[28:20]** acronyms without defining them and I

**[28:22]** failed. So if AMA is ask me anything um

**[28:24]** and basically you like post. So if you

**[28:27]** were to do one and they're um like hey

**[28:29]** I'm a criminal lawyer in South Dakota

**[28:32]** ask me anything and you'll get like all

**[28:33]** kinds of people that will basically ask

**[28:34]** you questions. Um so it's you have to

**[28:38]** give away your time answering questions

**[28:40]** for free all day. Um, but it is one of

**[28:42]** the only types of threads where mods

**[28:43]** will almost always let you link to

**[28:44]** yourself because they realize you're

**[28:46]** giving up some of your time to help

**[28:47]** their um, and it helps their subreddit

**[28:49]** do better. Um, and a lot of them pin

**[28:51]** them as well. So, whenever we have an

**[28:53]** AMA on any of our subs, like we'll pin

**[28:55]** them, we'll promote them um, because

**[28:57]** they are one of the best ways to

**[28:58]** actually engage on Reddit. Um, but yeah,

**[29:01]** something that I feel like a lot of

**[29:02]** people are not doing.

**[29:06]** >> I do a ton of videos

**[29:09]** and Bill or uh so that it was either

**[29:12]** last month or the month before I was

**[29:15]** getting these notifications in search

**[29:17]** console that I didn't have a video page.

**[29:20]** Okay, there is there is procedure. You

**[29:23]** got to like go to Bill Herbertzer on on

**[29:25]** his Facebook post about it. If you have

**[29:28]** a ton of videos posted on your website,

**[29:31]** you need a video only page for Google to

**[29:35]** look at.

**[29:36]** >> I have a question on that. So, I heard

**[29:38]** this at Brighton a year ago and I was

**[29:39]** like, "This is genius." We tried it. It

**[29:41]** did not work.

**[29:42]** >> It didn't work. We were still getting

**[29:43]** the error from

**[29:44]** >> No, it wasn't the error that went away.

**[29:46]** The videos just don't The video pages

**[29:48]** didn't rank anywhere. They didn't do

**[29:49]** anything.

**[29:51]** >> Yeah. So, this concept of like you need

**[29:53]** to have a video only page on your

**[29:55]** website. Problem is Google likes

**[29:56]** YouTube. So, our YouTube video was

**[29:58]** always ranking and if we just put that

**[30:00]** same YouTube video on our website, the

**[30:02]** the pitch that I heard was you'll get

**[30:04]** ranked twice. you don't like they're

**[30:06]** like this is the same content.

**[30:08]** >> So it didn't work for us at all because

**[30:10]** we're like well the video

**[30:12]** >> Yeah. I So I don't quite understand the

**[30:15]** point if the video is already on YouTube

**[30:16]** and then you have a ranking from that

**[30:18]** video on Google. You're not going to

**[30:20]** have your video page on your website pop

**[30:22]** in as an additional position

**[30:24]** >> because it's like they want the video

**[30:26]** page but I don't give a [ __ ] about being

**[30:28]** there. I want it on the actual blog page

**[30:31]** talking about the crap I'm talking

**[30:32]** about. Well, you want it on YouTube

**[30:34]** because that's like Yeah.

**[30:45]** >> Yeah. I was really excited about that

**[30:46]** strategy, but it did not it did nothing.

**[30:48]** I ended up deleting them. I left them up

**[30:50]** for months. They got no traffic. They

**[30:51]** didn't rank anywhere. Um and I was like,

**[30:53]** "Well, yeah, Google's going to want to

**[30:55]** surface YouTube because they own it."

**[30:57]** >> Right. Exactly. And yeah,

**[30:59]** >> back on that bunch of questions there.

**[31:01]** Just adding in right whatever page

**[31:04]** you're using it on. I really don't give

**[31:05]** a [ __ ] Make sure you're using a video

**[31:07]** object schema.

**[31:09]** >> Make sure you add a video sitemap to

**[31:11]** your website. And if you don't do the

**[31:12]** basics, then don't [ __ ] complain. And

**[31:14]** that error, I've never had that [ __ ] do

**[31:16]** nothing negative to me at all. My team

**[31:19]** used to always bother me about stop

**[31:21]** [ __ ] talking about that dumbass

**[31:22]** error.

**[31:24]** >> Okay, infographic. So I tried napkin

**[31:27]** when it first came out but you know

**[31:29]** paragraph of a blog in there. We using

**[31:32]** notebook LLM infographics. What else are

**[31:34]** you testing that's working that are you

**[31:35]** willing to share?

**[31:36]** >> Yeah, there's I can get you I don't

**[31:38]** remember the name off the top of my

**[31:39]** head. We tried a a bunch of different

**[31:40]** tools and there was two that I really

**[31:41]** like. Both are paid. Um but they've been

**[31:44]** working pretty well. I don't think

**[31:45]** you're going to need a paid tool pretty

**[31:47]** soon. I think that like a lot of the AI

**[31:49]** like especially Google's Yeah, I was

**[31:51]** gonna say that's like

**[31:53]** >> Yeah.

**[31:54]** into the ranking. I've got the test, but

**[31:56]** I want to get 50 that work for sure. But

**[31:59]** right now, inner scoop, right? Got a lot

**[32:01]** of tests, PA. Bro, I'm not even supposed

**[32:04]** to drop this because I haven't put it in

**[32:05]** my mastermind yet. So, forgive me if

**[32:07]** you're in my mastermind, right? Take the

**[32:10]** PAA. The whole just the PAA title. Drop

**[32:14]** that [ __ ] in Google Nano. Get

**[32:16]** the infographic, use that as your

**[32:18]** featured image, and thank me, lady.

**[32:20]** That's all I'm saying.

**[32:24]** Yeah. So, this is actually a question

**[32:26]** from both I guess myself. Where do we

**[32:29]** get the bulkies?

**[32:30]** >> Yeah. WHAT'S UP WITH THE BULKIES?

**[32:32]** >> GOD,

**[32:33]** >> is that even a thing anymore? Like, are

**[32:35]** there actually people that have bulk

**[32:37]** accounts that can get multiple

**[32:38]** businesses verified? I don't know.

**[32:40]** Google Google really tried to shut that

**[32:42]** down. So, if it's still working, I would

**[32:44]** keep that quiet.

**[32:47]** >> Yeah.

**[32:48]** >> I definitely don't have one.

**[32:50]** >> I do not have one. I do not consider.

**[32:52]** >> Yeah. Don't have one

**[33:06]** >> um this is just one point about the AI

**[33:09]** images. Um one this is the way that I do

**[33:12]** right. Um when I create an AI image, I

**[33:16]** don't I don't upload the AI image. just

**[33:20]** take screenshots, right? No metadata,

**[33:24]** right? So, that way I'm I'm running

**[33:27]** safer. I think

**[33:29]** >> it's a good idea.

**[33:30]** >> Anyone else had another question? Yo,

**[33:32]** and if you're using stock images that

**[33:34]** you know, still, right? Take them, flip

**[33:37]** them, then take a screenshot and that

**[33:38]** [ __ ] works. Never stop working, you

**[33:40]** know? And if you need unique images, now

**[33:43]** this is a [ __ ] two second thing

**[33:45]** included on anything. Go to YouTube. a

**[33:48]** video that's non-branded and just take

**[33:50]** screenshots every second. Put it in a

**[33:53]** folder. Ask AI to sort it by only images

**[33:55]** by category that are nice looking

**[33:57]** images. There you go. Don't [ __ ] talk

**[34:00]** to me about images. [ __ ]

**[34:03]** Before that, that [ __ ] was easy. Now

**[34:05]** it's like

**[34:08]** >> I was gonna say ask the same question on

**[34:10]** that. Um, but so we built a system to

**[34:13]** test this out. We haven't tested it yet,

**[34:15]** but we're telling like roofers, plumbers

**[34:18]** who don't have the time to create

**[34:19]** content or don't prioritize it. We just

**[34:21]** have them take a a minute or two video

**[34:23]** on the job or what they're doing in 60

**[34:25]** frames a second on their phone and then

**[34:27]** they upload it into into this system we

**[34:29]** built that just cuts it. We have 4,000

**[34:32]** images every frame is an image. Exactly

**[34:35]** what you said.

**[34:36]** >> And that's creating GP post content, but

**[34:38]** like all the things they can post and

**[34:40]** do. Obviously, you're not choosing. You

**[34:42]** get to choose which ones look better and

**[34:44]** stuff, but I was wondering your opinion

**[34:46]** on that if if you think it's a good

**[34:47]** idea, a bad idea that it has a similar

**[34:49]** effect on AI images that you're talking

**[34:50]** about or thoughts on.

**[34:52]** >> Yeah. So, I would say the only negative

**[34:53]** is when you're leaving it up to like the

**[34:55]** tech, they may not include the right

**[34:57]** information. The reason why interviews

**[34:59]** work well is like my team has a list

**[35:01]** like we need these keywords, we need

**[35:02]** this example. They also have um when we

**[35:04]** use the people also ask scraper it

**[35:06]** includes the link um to the actual like

**[35:09]** part of the page that Google is grabbing

**[35:11]** the answer from. You know how it

**[35:12]** highlights it in purple. So like we have

**[35:14]** that link with all the the um data in it

**[35:16]** and it highlights it. So we're like

**[35:18]** pulling that up on the interview with

**[35:19]** them and if they give us like a wrong

**[35:21]** answer like that doesn't really match

**[35:22]** what Google's like looking for, we'll

**[35:25]** come back and like okay why this and

**[35:26]** that. So it it probably will work. But

**[35:29]** like we saw this when we were trying to

**[35:31]** do um transcripts from calls because

**[35:33]** we're like we can just use their call

**[35:34]** center. All the the phone calls they

**[35:36]** have with clients just take that. It

**[35:38]** didn't work as well because it was

**[35:39]** missing a lot of detail that we needed.

**[35:41]** Um so I think that's the only part where

**[35:43]** it might break down. You might need to

**[35:44]** like send them like okay we need a video

**[35:46]** about this. Can you mention this? You

**[35:48]** might need to coach them a bit more.

**[35:54]** >> Okay. Uh, Peter says, "Google said they

**[35:57]** are watermarking

**[35:59]** nano banana images. One, is there a way

**[36:02]** to remove those? Two, do you think that

**[36:04]** would solve the AI image filtering for?"

**[36:08]** >> It's worth testing. I have not tested

**[36:09]** it, so I don't know.

**[36:13]** >> Yeah, the screenshot thing. I would try

**[36:15]** the screenshot thing. That's a That's a

**[36:17]** great idea to test. So

**[36:20]** >> can I just tell you that there is a

**[36:22]** already litigation that has started

**[36:24]** >> of course

**[36:25]** >> with the removal of trademark. So

**[36:29]** you might want to take your nana banana

**[36:32]** and have something else done to it

**[36:35]** because at least I was reading an

**[36:37]** article in California that

**[36:40]** >> there's Google is going to has already

**[36:42]** started litigating it people who are

**[36:44]** taking the image removing the watermark

**[36:47]** and then putting it up as their own in

**[36:50]** the process and because they have the

**[36:52]** metadata tied into it it's not very hard

**[36:54]** for them to figure out. That is really

**[36:57]** great to know. Um I can tell you we've

**[36:59]** had clients that have gotten like the

**[37:00]** law, you know, the lawsuits they get in

**[37:02]** the email for images and stuff. Like a

**[37:04]** lot of them are legit. We've had several

**[37:06]** clients have actually gotten um to not

**[37:08]** for like a stupid amount of money, but

**[37:09]** some of them were pretty high for not

**[37:11]** having the rights to the images that

**[37:12]** they were using on their websites.

**[37:15]** >> Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, that's good to

**[37:18]** know that Google I mean I could see why

**[37:20]** Google would do that. So,

**[37:21]** >> okay, next question. Do you recommend

**[37:24]** putting your Google reviews on your own

**[37:27]** website review page or unique reviews?

**[37:30]** >> 100%. And at at a minimum, you want to

**[37:32]** copy like or download. We use a software

**[37:34]** called Place Scout that stores all the

**[37:36]** copies of the reviews. Google's

**[37:37]** notorious at, you know, just deleting

**[37:38]** all your hardened reviews. And you can

**[37:40]** often get them back if you have copies

**[37:42]** of them. If you don't have copies with

**[37:43]** them, you're screwed. So, you always

**[37:45]** want to have copies. Adding them to your

**[37:46]** site is one way to have a copy of them.

**[37:48]** And what she means just to explain,

**[37:50]** right? Like take a [ __ ] Google sheet,

**[37:52]** but the whole text, the name of the

**[37:54]** person, a screenshot of the review, and

**[37:57]** then I like to because you know I'm

**[37:58]** being OCD with it. I'm clicking into

**[38:00]** their profile and I'm taking a

**[38:02]** screenshot of as much of their [ __ ]

**[38:04]** review history if they're showing it as

**[38:06]** I can.

**[38:06]** >> So you can

**[38:07]** >> you can do that if you I mean an easier

**[38:09]** way is just keep the emails. If you have

**[38:11]** the email,

**[38:12]** >> yeah, if you keep the email

**[38:13]** notification, it has all the data in

**[38:15]** like the source code of the email that

**[38:17]** Google would need. It has a link to the

**[38:18]** person's profile. It has the text of the

**[38:20]** review. You just like we have folders

**[38:22]** for all of our review alerts and like

**[38:23]** you know for different client names. We

**[38:25]** just show them in there.

**[38:26]** >> If you're doing spam like me, take the

**[38:28]** screenshot.

**[38:32]** >> Next question. Your findings on content

**[38:34]** gap analysis make sense. EAS are also

**[38:38]** content that already exist. How are

**[38:40]** those topics different from a content

**[38:43]** gap analysis? Yeah. So, they seem to be

**[38:45]** heavier focused on things like price,

**[38:47]** which we were talking about yesterday.

**[38:49]** Um, I'll notice like that's often

**[38:50]** something you're not going to find on a

**[38:52]** competitor's site is like cost

**[38:53]** breakdowns or pricing or things like

**[38:55]** that. So, it definitely will give you

**[38:57]** content that your competitors don't

**[38:58]** have. But, we are starting to see now

**[39:00]** like, okay, what's the next step?

**[39:01]** Because like you said, there's a lot of

**[39:03]** PAS that show up that do exist on your

**[39:06]** competitor site. Um, I have Noah

**[39:09]** currently working on building. Noah's

**[39:11]** Noah learn is a genius guy that I hired

**[39:13]** that um builds all of our internal

**[39:15]** tools. He's trying to solve that. So I

**[39:17]** don't have the answer yet, but that's

**[39:18]** like one of the big things we're trying

**[39:19]** to solve this year is like where do you

**[39:20]** go to get the topics that like nobody

**[39:22]** has that you need to publish? Um so

**[39:25]** we're we're trying to find a better

**[39:26]** solution than just the

**[39:27]** >> PAAAS.

**[39:39]** So don't don't share this with the whole

**[39:42]** world, but yes, it's price, but we upped

**[39:46]** it by doing the time frame.

**[39:48]** >> They're looking Google, you said it.

**[39:50]** Google's looking for numbers. Yep.

**[39:52]** >> And so I am trying to differentiate my

**[39:55]** EAA because I now I have the price

**[39:58]** range,

**[39:59]** >> but the time frame is also a number.

**[40:01]** Yep. Okay. So, you got to think about

**[40:02]** the business. What other extra number

**[40:05]** can you add in there to make it more of

**[40:08]** a unique piece of content in the time

**[40:11]** frame has really been like working for

**[40:13]** us very well on on capturing more PAAs

**[40:17]** and getting better rank because they're

**[40:18]** just so hungry for the numbers.

**[40:20]** >> Yeah. For the personal injury lawyers

**[40:22]** that we've been doing ranges for the

**[40:24]** other problem that you'll run into is if

**[40:25]** you don't match the consensus. Like if

**[40:27]** you're like, "Oh yeah, your average

**[40:28]** settlement is $5 million and all the

**[40:30]** other lawyers are saying the average is

**[40:31]** 50,000." We've actually seen that as a

**[40:33]** blocker. Google won't actually give you

**[40:35]** the AI overview if your data is so

**[40:37]** different than everybody else's that

**[40:39]** they've got, which is annoying. But

**[40:43]** >> one one more question back here. So

**[40:45]** we've noticed that when you post on

**[40:47]** Google business profile with industry

**[40:50]** that includes if you put it through

**[40:51]** Google vision or Google's AI

**[40:55]** vision AI whatever API if it pulls the

**[40:59]** keywords out of the image that you're

**[41:00]** trying to rank for you'll notice you

**[41:02]** search like Austin or Chief all imagery

**[41:06]** will be it'll pull the teeth images in

**[41:09]** the top three. Yep.

**[41:10]** >> Same thing with car accident attorney

**[41:12]** keyword. I'm curious, are you guys

**[41:15]** seeing that be part of your strategy now

**[41:17]** the imagery for certain keywords to get

**[41:20]** that?

**[41:21]** >> We we haven't gone that far. Images we

**[41:23]** found are usually only a ranking factor

**[41:25]** in that case when you get a local pack

**[41:27]** with images. Whenever you get that then

**[41:29]** the images all of a sudden are weighted

**[41:31]** higher. Um I hate image packs though.

**[41:34]** They're in general they're just terrible

**[41:36]** because they remove call buttons on

**[41:37]** mobile. So, you will find the moment

**[41:39]** that those image packs roll out for your

**[41:40]** industry, which there was a whole

**[41:41]** whackload of industries that got them in

**[41:43]** the fall that didn't have them before,

**[41:45]** your calls in your business profile will

**[41:47]** drop and it's irritating. So, my

**[41:49]** solution actually, it's terrible. I

**[41:51]** actually hate saying this, but like for

**[41:53]** those clients that are like getting that

**[41:55]** loss of calls now, we're like, you

**[41:56]** should start running ads because the ads

**[41:58]** have the call button. And so, like I

**[42:00]** posted this on Reddit the other day and

**[42:02]** like people are like, "This isn't new,

**[42:03]** Joy." I'm like, "It's new because all

**[42:04]** these industries that didn't have this

**[42:06]** before now have it. And if you want a

**[42:07]** call button, your only way to get it is

**[42:09]** a is an ad. Not local service ads,

**[42:11]** traditional ads, your location assets,

**[42:14]** if you have one, and it shows up in the

**[42:15]** local pack. They have a website, a

**[42:16]** directions, and a call button, and

**[42:18]** nobody else has one.

**[42:19]** >> Has to be.

**[42:20]** >> Yeah. Yes. Yes. You can't do it with

**[42:22]** service area businesses.

**[42:24]** >> Yeah. Yes. I for I always forget that

**[42:27]** detail, but yeah, service area

**[42:28]** businesses just get screwed in every

**[42:30]** way. Yeah.

**[42:33]** >> Yeah. Joy, you mentioned that you saved

**[42:34]** the review emails. Did you also you were

**[42:36]** using a tool saved automatically or not.

**[42:38]** >> Yeah, we use Places Scout. They don't

**[42:40]** like I talk about them all the time like

**[42:42]** screenshots and stuff. They don't pay me

**[42:43]** to do that. Um, but they are a pretty

**[42:45]** clunky like old school tool that just

**[42:47]** got acquired by Yex, so who knows what's

**[42:49]** going to happen to it, but I know,

**[42:51]** sorry. Well, actually, we have some Yex

**[42:52]** lovers in the room. I've heard Yex a few

**[42:54]** times. Yeah.

**[42:56]** >> All right. All right. All right. Uh, I'm

**[42:59]** not a Yex fan. I think they charge way

**[43:00]** too much for their service. But um yeah,

**[43:02]** places scout just got acquired by X. So

**[43:04]** I think there's a bunch of upgrades

**[43:05]** coming. But what I like about them is

**[43:07]** they store everything. I can go back

**[43:09]** years ago and look at screenshots of

**[43:11]** SERs and see like that's that's what

**[43:13]** makes things make sense for me because

**[43:14]** I'm like, "Oh, this is what it looked

**[43:16]** like a year ago. This is what it looks

**[43:17]** like now. There was like two ads, now

**[43:19]** there's six. This would explain this,

**[43:21]** this, and this pattern." Um so they're

**[43:23]** big on data, which I feel like most

**[43:25]** tools don't do because it's expensive.

**[43:27]** places

**[43:28]** >> places scout.

**[43:30]** >> Yeah, it's really really awful UI. Just

**[43:32]** fair warning. Yeah.

**[43:36]** >> So, one thing that made me think about

**[43:37]** how much you need members um the GDP has

**[43:41]** found here

**[43:44]** >> that needs to be on your website too and

**[43:47]** quality service since 1947.

**[43:51]** >> Did you say that because you find Google

**[43:52]** changes it if it doesn't match your

**[43:54]** website?

**[43:54]** >> No, I'm just saying that's not our

**[43:55]** authority.

**[43:59]** Yeah, the year that you opened is one of

**[44:01]** the primary things that we are seeing in

**[44:02]** the description fields. Um, so the AI

**[44:05]** local packs that are surfacing on

**[44:06]** mobile, uh, they're only in the US and

**[44:09]** they're only on mobile and they're for

**[44:10]** about 8% of queries right now. They have

**[44:12]** descriptions that actually show up like

**[44:13]** in the local packs. So, I've been like

**[44:15]** obsessively looking at them and one of

**[44:17]** the biggest things they feature is

**[44:18]** anything with numbers. So, what year

**[44:20]** you've been open, uh, we were able to

**[44:22]** get like for a lawyer like how much

**[44:24]** they've been able to win, you know, when

**[44:26]** they're like, "Oh, we've recovered 50

**[44:28]** million in compensation, blah, blah,

**[44:29]** blah." We were able to get that in there

**[44:30]** because it's a number. Um, and Google

**[44:32]** wants it, but they're grabbing it from

**[44:33]** the website, not from the GMBB field,

**[44:35]** GBP.

**[44:41]** >> It should match. Yes. Anything

**[44:42]** everything should be the same. All

**[44:45]** again, basics, right? I want to pick

**[44:47]** back on. It's not what he mentioned

**[44:49]** about the image. Uh, let me just say it.

**[44:53]** You always put the keyword that you're

**[44:55]** trying to rank on the [ __ ] image. I

**[44:59]** don't care about nothing else, right?

**[45:01]** Except what they're talking about

**[45:03]** different, right? But if you want Google

**[45:05]** to read your images and know what the

**[45:08]** [ __ ] you're talking about on an entity

**[45:10]** level,

**[45:11]** you have to do that. That's why I even

**[45:13]** created my own tool for it, right? And

**[45:15]** I'll show a little bit of it tomorrow.

**[45:17]** You could do it free, but you got to do

**[45:18]** it one image at a time with Google

**[45:20]** Vision AI. Right? When you do that and

**[45:22]** you go to AI, the picture mode, you show

**[45:26]** up like almost easily, especially if

**[45:28]** it's a client that has any type of brand

**[45:30]** or authority. It's almost like easy

**[45:32]** case. I want

**[45:33]** >> Do you put in like size eight fonts at

**[45:35]** the very bottom? So, put it nice and

**[45:36]** big.

**[45:37]** >> I was like, then your competitors won't

**[45:38]** be able to like see it and copy you

**[45:40]** again.

**[45:40]** >> Yeah. No, I put it nice and big and they

**[45:41]** do copy Joy. And then half the time I go

**[45:44]** into AI overview since me and the old

**[45:46]** partner Brent of mine, put people on to

**[45:48]** that little hack. I just see people

**[45:51]** using the same thing and it's, you know,

**[45:52]** makes me feel good. It works. I wanted

**[45:54]** to ask you s if you don't mind. I

**[45:56]** thought I had messaged you this, but in

**[45:58]** my messenger I see I did.

**[46:00]** >> I'm not going to read all that out. Have

**[46:01]** you seen this these people in Miami?

**[46:04]** >> No.

**[46:05]** >> Hey, grab my phone real quick, right?

**[46:06]** And just look at these reviews when you

**[46:08]** get a chance.

**[46:09]** >> Are they just fake reviews?

**[46:10]** >> No. No. Oh,

**[46:12]** >> just check it out real quick. I'mma tell

**[46:13]** them. So, there's something I'm showing

**[46:14]** her, right? There's a car accident

**[46:16]** attorney Miami, right? The people

**[46:18]** ranking number one, 1.2K reviews. Just

**[46:21]** go look at their reviews. Nugget drop.

**[46:25]** All right.

**[46:26]** >> Which one is it? What's

**[46:28]** >> car attorney? And it's nothing to do

**[46:30]** with me. I don't know all these people.

**[46:31]** And I'll tell you what it is. It's

**[46:33]** photos, bro. They got pictures right in

**[46:36]** their office with the one of the

**[46:37]** attorneys with all types of different

**[46:39]** people and consistently.

**[46:41]** >> So did I like have you heard the story

**[46:43]** about photos when we were testing

**[46:44]** photos? So we did a test with um

**[46:46]** reviews. We wanted to know like what

**[46:48]** causes the order. So you know how like

**[46:50]** when you pull up a business, you'll get

**[46:52]** like a negative review stuck at the top

**[46:53]** and it's like eight months old and

**[46:54]** you're like how do I get that thing to

**[46:56]** like move down because it's like old. So

**[46:58]** they're not like ordered um

**[47:00]** chronologically. They use factors. So,

**[47:02]** we did a a test on a whole bunch of

**[47:04]** reviews. We tracked it for a year and a

**[47:05]** half, and I wanted to know what made the

**[47:07]** order change. Biggest thing is photos

**[47:10]** and reviews. So, the the I don't want to

**[47:12]** call it a hack, but like the the thing

**[47:14]** that we tested that was just

**[47:15]** mind-blowing to me is we had um we had a

**[47:18]** negative review come in from my agency

**[47:20]** because the guy couldn't get through on

**[47:21]** our phone lines. Our phone lines were

**[47:22]** down. And we're like, "This is the

**[47:23]** stupidest review." And of course, it's

**[47:25]** like the first thing that showed up. So,

**[47:26]** we're like, "Okay, we're going to try

**[47:28]** something." We emailed a client that

**[47:29]** left us a year a review two years ago

**[47:31]** and we said, "Can you just go add a

**[47:32]** photo to the review that you left us?"

**[47:34]** He goes and he adds a photo. The entire

**[47:37]** order changed. His came to the top even

**[47:38]** though it's a two-year-old review.

**[47:40]** Pushed the other ones like way down.

**[47:42]** That negative review wasn't even in the

**[47:44]** top 10 anymore. So photos are like crazy

**[47:46]** powerful. usually ends up the feature

**[47:48]** review usually.

**[47:55]** >> All right, talk about for a second, but

**[47:58]** this is what I feel like. So, we're

**[48:00]** doing it Mike's method for photo

**[48:03]** is text on the image. I've got the logo

**[48:05]** on there. I've got the phone number.

**[48:07]** Most my clients are multilocation, so

**[48:10]** there's some variance with those photos.

**[48:12]** And when I start like doing like uh an

**[48:15]** image audit, okay, and I start seeing

**[48:17]** that like dude, we're like completely

**[48:19]** for this keyword, it's nothing but my

**[48:22]** paa images,

**[48:22]** >> bro.

**[48:24]** It's freaking nuts.

**[48:26]** >> What I have seen talking out my ass. I

**[48:29]** feel like when I start dominating the

**[48:32]** image section, when you go to the image

**[48:34]** on the Google, I am also seeing organic

**[48:37]** rank increase and also map increase.

**[48:40]** Mhm.

**[48:41]** >> That's Hey, just to be clear, in that

**[48:43]** method that I taught, I told all y'all

**[48:45]** we doing this organic play with social,

**[48:47]** but it's to bring the maps up. Yeah.

**[48:50]** >> And that was before AI overview existing

**[48:53]** that you're dominating.

**[48:55]** >> You start seeing it lifting everything.

**[48:58]** >> What kind of queries are these for?

**[49:00]** >> Uh this Okay. So, like when we're doing

**[49:02]** a PAA, we're just putting in

**[49:04]** >> Okay.

**[49:05]** >> Okay. And then we get the PAA off of

**[49:07]** that and then we're creating a whole

**[49:08]** bunch of PAAs. Um, we do our I'm not

**[49:11]** going to spill like Mike's being on

**[49:13]** >> I'll show tomorrow.

**[49:15]** >> The PAAs are constantly ch changing.

**[49:17]** Okay. So, the PAA changes

**[49:20]** all throughout the entire day. So, we'll

**[49:22]** always do our PAAAS up to the second.

**[49:25]** We're going to that zip code or that GPS

**[49:28]** and GS location changer and we get that.

**[49:31]** Okay. So, we do it every time. It's not

**[49:33]** like we scrape a hundred. We don't do

**[49:35]** that. I think that's a huge issue

**[49:37]** because they change. All right.

**[49:46]** >> Car accident attorney Miami. They

**[49:49]** probably rank for car accident law. It

**[49:51]** probably ran for [ __ ] everything

**[49:52]** honestly. Just the way they doing that

**[49:54]** [ __ ] Any other questions for Joy?

**[49:57]** No. Sure. All right, everybody give it

**[50:00]** up for Joy.