# SEO Rockstars 2026: Day 1 - Ted Kubaitis

**Video URL:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY1o8U0vW9s

---

## Transcript

**[00:04]** Hello everyone. I'm uh not seeing what

**[00:08]** you see. So hopefully uh somebody let me

**[00:12]** know if you're seeing my camera view. Do

**[00:14]** you see a person?

**[00:17]** >> Yeah.

**[00:18]** >> Okay. Perfect. Perfect. All right. So I

**[00:21]** I want to start by talking about what

**[00:25]** Dan just shared. I I feel what he

**[00:28]** dropped there was uh so cool and so next

**[00:33]** level. I have an ecom background and let

**[00:37]** let me put the uh the actual scale of

**[00:43]** the nugget drop into perspective.

**[00:46]** Um,

**[00:48]** I had uh bought a house in Gig Harbor

**[00:53]** and it cost, you know, between four and

**[00:56]** $500,000

**[00:58]** and I rented it out for $3500

**[01:03]** a month and and months are, you know,

**[01:08]** uh, four or five weeks.

**[01:11]** So Dan in one to two weeks and I bet the

**[01:16]** first week uh it wasn't really running,

**[01:19]** you know, optimally. So he probably got

**[01:22]** that $800 in a week.

**[01:26]** So he basically got the rental income

**[01:30]** from a premium property

**[01:34]** without having to buy a house.

**[01:37]** >> All right. So that's that's the scale of

**[01:41]** what he showed you.

**[01:43]** Now once you build that,

**[01:48]** how hard is it to make five more?

**[01:53]** [clears throat] All right. So the first

**[01:55]** one's hard, but I bet I bet Dan could

**[01:59]** cookie cutter those. He could make one

**[02:02]** for cosmetics, one for trampolines, one

**[02:06]** for gaming computers.

**[02:10]** I mean, holy cow. Uh that that is

**[02:15]** potentially

**[02:17]** like a uh it's like a real estate bubble

**[02:20]** but without the upfront cost and

**[02:22]** lending.

**[02:25]** Um so yeah, kudos to Dan for sharing

**[02:29]** that. Man, my mind is blown.

**[02:33]** All right. So, I just wanted to say that

**[02:36]** because what he dropped there, normally

**[02:39]** people don't share methods like that.

**[02:42]** They sell them. All right.

**[02:44]** >> Oh, yeah.

**[02:46]** >> Uh, so yeah. Uh, def definitely uh right

**[02:51]** now best in show dance presentation. I

**[02:54]** haven't seen everybody else yet, but

**[02:57]** that's a tall order.

**[03:00]** All right. So,

**[03:03]** I also want to apologize. I really

**[03:06]** wanted to be there in person. Uh, but

**[03:09]** life happened. And so, I'm very sorry

**[03:12]** about that. If you came to network with

**[03:15]** me, just reach out to me later. We can,

**[03:19]** uh, book a session and and talk about

**[03:22]** what's going on with you. Uh my contact

**[03:25]** page at SEO Tool Lab has a schedule a

**[03:28]** meeting option and I'll I'll open that

**[03:32]** to all attendees. If you came there to

**[03:35]** talk to me about a problem, uh just book

**[03:38]** a meeting, we'll talk about it. Okay.

**[03:41]** >> Uh so I don't want to cheat you out of

**[03:43]** that.

**[03:46]** >> Thank you, Ted.

**[03:48]** >> All right. So, now I'm [clears throat]

**[03:51]** uh going to show a a slide deck here,

**[03:55]** and it's more wordy than my usual slide

**[03:58]** deck. Uh but just know uh the words on

**[04:02]** it don't matter. They're just notes for

**[04:05]** me. Uh what I really want to do is guide

**[04:08]** you through what I consider the most

**[04:13]** terrifying story in SEO.

**[04:17]** and it's happening right now. And I've

**[04:21]** never felt more alone. Like there's so

**[04:24]** much uh you know there there's just so

**[04:29]** many people that you know look at me

**[04:31]** with confusion.

**[04:33]** So I'm going to try to show you what I

**[04:36]** I'm seeing,

**[04:38]** but I'm also going to tell you what to

**[04:40]** do. And it's not the end of the world.

**[04:43]** So, as much as I scare you in the

**[04:46]** beginning, don't fall for it. It's not

**[04:48]** that bad.

**[04:50]** All right.

**[04:52]** So, let's see. I will

**[04:56]** share my presentation again.

**[05:02]** All right. So, let's tell a story.

**[05:08]** So January 15,

**[05:12]** 2025,

**[05:14]** Google requires JavaScript to view a

**[05:18]** search results.

**[05:20]** Uh this was the kickoff

**[05:24]** of Google's move to AI and the the

**[05:30]** changing of the game. Um, and this was

**[05:35]** just unsettling to me that they did

**[05:38]** this. And

**[05:42]** I started looking around in their source

**[05:45]** code

**[05:47]** uh and and I noticed they were also now

**[05:51]** uh tracking for headless Chrome.

**[05:55]** >> [snorts]

**[05:55]** >> So when Google required JavaScript to

**[05:59]** view uh the search results,

**[06:02]** every SEO tool that wasn't already

**[06:07]** rendering the page broke instantly. Uh

**[06:12]** that was largely rank trackers, but it

**[06:14]** was a number of other tools as well.

**[06:18]** And then all of these SEO tool

**[06:21]** providers,

**[06:23]** they all switch to APIs that use

**[06:26]** headless Chrome or they started directly

**[06:29]** embedding headless Chrome or they were

**[06:32]** already built to use headless Chrome.

**[06:35]** But it all came together on the exact

**[06:39]** same day. the entire industry

**[06:43]** without collaboration or communication.

**[06:47]** Everybody made this change on the same

**[06:51]** day.

**[06:53]** >> And I think Google knew.

**[06:56]** >> All right. And so this is from a uh

**[07:00]** desktop search. You don't have to

**[07:02]** understand the mumbo jumbo. just that

**[07:05]** they are flagging anybody using headless

**[07:10]** Chrome on the server. They know it's

**[07:13]** headless Chrome.

**[07:16]** All right. Wow.

**[07:17]** >> And thank thank goodness thank goodness

**[07:22]** that this isn't happening in local SEO,

**[07:28]** but it is.

**[07:31]** Uh so yeah it's happening on on normal

**[07:35]** search it's happening in maps.

**[07:38]** All right.

**[07:40]** So there are some implications to this

**[07:46]** in that uh

**[07:49]** [clears throat]

**[07:50]** we have to start thinking about the

**[07:53]** context that Google is trying to handle

**[07:57]** the context they like and the context

**[08:00]** they don't. And so as of early 2026,

**[08:05]** over 60% of all internet traffic comes

**[08:11]** from mobile. All right? And Google is

**[08:15]** capturing around 95%

**[08:18]** of that 60%.

**[08:21]** All right? That's that's a lot. That's

**[08:24]** why Google is big on mobile. All right.

**[08:29]** In 2016, their CEO

**[08:34]** told the world that in mobile, typically

**[08:38]** all users are logged in.

**[08:43]** All right.

**[08:45]** if you're starting to feel uneasy about

**[08:48]** the state of the world. Yeah. Like I was

**[08:51]** in the same place and and I was

**[08:54]** thinking, you know, I don't quite get it

**[08:56]** yet, but this does not feel good.

**[09:00]** >> All right.

**[09:01]** >> And so getting a little more nerdy here.

**[09:05]** Google's OOTH. So that's the login with

**[09:08]** Google. If you've ever gone to websites

**[09:10]** and apps and it said sign in with

**[09:13]** Google, that's what OOTH is.

**[09:16]** And 72%

**[09:19]** of all internet users worldwide as of

**[09:25]** 2019

**[09:27]** have a Google account, making OOTH one

**[09:30]** of the most compelling choices

**[09:34]** uh Google's offering.

**[09:37]** All right. And that's that's adoption

**[09:39]** rate has probably gone up since 2019.

**[09:47]** All right. So everybody's logging in.

**[09:49]** Let's let's think about how you and I

**[09:53]** operate. All right. So on behalf of our

**[09:57]** clients,

**[09:58]** let's kind of think about that. So I

**[10:01]** will open up an incognito window.

**[10:06]** All right. And I will search my client's

**[10:11]** keywords from an anonymous context.

**[10:16]** All right. Now, is is that what human

**[10:19]** beings do? No. Human beings are logged

**[10:23]** in Google users.

**[10:25]** They're not anonymous incognito.

**[10:30]** All right. Very, very different. Um,

**[10:34]** let's think about what we do when we go

**[10:37]** shopping. All right, we don't incognito.

**[10:41]** Uh, we owe off all over the place. We

**[10:45]** log in with Google everywhere and we're

**[10:48]** using our logged in user when we engage

**[10:52]** the internet.

**[10:56]** All right. So, there are these two

**[10:58]** paths. there's this, you know, let's

**[11:01]** pretend we're in the anonymous public,

**[11:05]** but the public isn't anonymous anymore.

**[11:09]** [clears throat]

**[11:10]** All right.

**[11:12]** So, September

**[11:14]** 2025,

**[11:16]** Google announced hiring for antiscraping

**[11:21]** engineers.

**[11:23]** They're coming after SEO tool developers

**[11:28]** and uh you know probably the reason

**[11:31]** isn't that they hate SEO and they want

**[11:33]** to kill us. They they probably don't

**[11:35]** give a crap about us except the fact

**[11:38]** that we incur a cost on them. And the

**[11:42]** cost that we incur by scraping the

**[11:45]** search results has gone sharply up since

**[11:49]** they've added very expensive AI features

**[11:54]** to those result pages.

**[11:57]** So Google is basically choking on the

**[12:02]** operating cost of what all of our tools

**[12:05]** are doing to them. And so that's

**[12:07]** probably why they're hiring these

**[12:09]** anti-scraping engineers is they're like,

**[12:12]** "We got to stop these guys. They're

**[12:15]** costing us too much." But it's not, "We

**[12:18]** got to stop these guys because we hate

**[12:20]** SEO." That might be the case, but it's

**[12:23]** more likely they just have operating

**[12:25]** costs they want to minimize, but it's

**[12:28]** happening. So we have

**[12:31]** uh roles at Google that are for the

**[12:36]** specific purpose stopping SEO tools.

**[12:42]** And you know that's that's amazing.

**[12:45]** That's not a friendly action towards our

**[12:48]** industry. So if you think Google uh

**[12:51]** likes you because you're a good person

**[12:54]** or something, this isn't Google saying

**[12:57]** they like you.

**[12:59]** Um, so just keep that in mind.

**[13:01]** Understand your relationship with Google

**[13:05]** if you're making tools because this

**[13:07]** right here is your actual relationship

**[13:10]** with Google.

**[13:14]** All right.

**[13:16]** Then uh in September 2025,

**[13:20]** Google took away the numbum equals 100

**[13:25]** support.

**[13:27]** You know, it seems like this is like

**[13:28]** this this plan that they devised and

**[13:31]** they're rolling it out in phases

**[13:34]** and it it was quietly disabled

**[13:38]** by them. They didn't announce it or or

**[13:41]** anything, but the world noticed in a

**[13:44]** heartbeat because rank trackers

**[13:47]** everywhere blew up. All the stats in

**[13:51]** search console were wrong. And so it

**[13:55]** hardly went unnoticed,

**[13:58]** but it was definitely not announced.

**[14:02]** And there are implications to to that.

**[14:06]** You know, it broke the tools everywhere.

**[14:08]** But now getting a hundred uh search

**[14:11]** results per [snorts] keyword

**[14:15]** takes 10 times of the request to Google

**[14:18]** because you have to pageionate.

**[14:21]** And because of that, you're using up

**[14:24]** more resources. You're using more API

**[14:28]** calls. Those API calls are expensive and

**[14:31]** it's all a lot slower.

**[14:34]** And so that's a huge hit to us.

**[14:39]** All right.

**[14:43]** But this should hurt Google, too, right?

**[14:45]** because Google made a change that

**[14:48]** requires us to 10x all of the requests

**[14:52]** we're making to Google. Isn't that like

**[14:55]** shooting yourself in the foot?

**[14:59]** >> You know, but here's the thing. Here's

**[15:01]** where we start to see how this could be

**[15:05]** working in their favor and not to their

**[15:07]** detriment.

**[15:09]** What if the headless Chrome requests the

**[15:13]** tools are making

**[15:16]** go to one place

**[15:18]** and all the Google logged in users that

**[15:21]** are human beings go to another

**[15:27]** >> they're cloaking.

**[15:28]** >> All right. Yeah, it's starting to sound

**[15:31]** black hat. [clears throat]

**[15:33]** >> Yep.

**[15:34]** >> All right.

**[15:36]** So this year's most important question

**[15:40]** is the headless Chrome SEO contest

**[15:45]** that rank trackers and SEO tools are are

**[15:49]** playing in. Is that the same contest as

**[15:53]** the logged in Google users?

**[15:57]** And I've I've been trying to figure this

**[15:59]** out and figure out the implications. And

**[16:02]** it's such a massive problem to unpack.

**[16:06]** So my analysis I I would describe as

**[16:11]** weak as hell right now. It's it's not

**[16:15]** enough.

**[16:17]** But everything I've seen in my weak as

**[16:20]** hell analysis says no, they're not the

**[16:24]** same contest.

**[16:26]** mobile users, human traffic are seeing

**[16:31]** different opportunities

**[16:34]** than what the SEO tools are presenting.

**[16:39]** And it's not it's not in all cases there

**[16:43]** there are definitely

**[16:46]** you know a noteworthy percentage where

**[16:49]** they're the same but it's definitely

**[16:52]** most cases there is a substantial

**[16:56]** difference between the two contexts and

**[17:00]** it tends to be the the higher the volume

**[17:04]** the higher the competition the higher

**[17:06]** the CPC the more likely

**[17:10]** uh the the two views are going to

**[17:14]** diverge

**[17:16]** but

**[17:17]** uh you know it's not all bad news in

**[17:20]** that case. So SEO is not dead you know

**[17:24]** that that's the that's the good news. Uh

**[17:29]** almost nothing has changed in the

**[17:32]** ranking algorithm.

**[17:34]** Everything that worked two, three years

**[17:37]** ago still works now. The same methods

**[17:40]** all work. Uh the rhinoplasty plano games

**[17:45]** still ranking number one. Nothing but

**[17:48]** schema from Clint and Terry Samuels

**[17:51]** still number one. Uh AI, as far as I can

**[17:56]** tell, made SEO easier for everyone.

**[18:01]** So, you know, that's the good news.

**[18:06]** But do your rankings impact traffic?

**[18:12]** Yeah, they still do. But does number one

**[18:16]** get the same traffic it used to get? No,

**[18:20]** not even close, except in a minority of

**[18:23]** cases.

**[18:25]** Will clients see the rankings I'm

**[18:28]** reporting?

**[18:30]** probably not.

**[18:33]** All right. And so there's problems with

**[18:36]** this in that we have to measure and

**[18:40]** operate differently

**[18:42]** as SEOs. You can't just report on

**[18:46]** rankings anymore. It's it's different.

**[18:52]** And so we have to understand where did

**[18:55]** all the traffic go. So number one isn't

**[18:58]** what it used to be. Where'd it go? And

**[19:02]** it didn't move. The traffic is still

**[19:05]** where it's always been. It's above the

**[19:09]** fold.

**[19:13]** All right. The problem is our rankings

**[19:17]** aren't all right. And so back in the

**[19:21]** day,

**[19:23]** back in the day, we used to view search

**[19:27]** as 10 blue links. So page one, page two.

**[19:32]** 10 blue links, page one. You'd

**[19:34]** pageionate 10 blue links, page two.

**[19:39]** All right? But that's not how it is

**[19:42]** anymore

**[19:44]** cuz now you go to page one. All right?

**[19:48]** and it's not 10 blue links, it's eight

**[19:51]** or or six or you know a different

**[19:54]** number. And then they have uh sponsored

**[19:59]** ads, they have business listings, they

**[20:03]** have the local pack, they have the AI

**[20:06]** overview,

**[20:07]** uh you know, they have all this stuff

**[20:10]** above the organic.

**[20:13]** So you might have to actually

**[20:16]** uh page down or scroll down multiple

**[20:21]** times

**[20:23]** to get those top three organic spots

**[20:26]** visible in the viewport.

**[20:28]** So what used to be page one page two

**[20:33]** pageionation events is now uh needing to

**[20:37]** be measured in user interactions. So

**[20:41]** page down or scroll down events and

**[20:44]** pageionation events.

**[20:48]** So if you're top of page two, that might

**[20:52]** be scroll, scroll, scroll, pageionate.

**[20:57]** That's equivalent to like four

**[20:59]** pageenations in the early day. That's

**[21:02]** effectively page four.

**[21:06]** So, they're burying us behind user

**[21:09]** interactions to be seen. And this is

**[21:12]** happening in AI mode, too, because

**[21:15]** you'll you'll note when you go to AI

**[21:17]** mode, they only show you three of the

**[21:20]** citations.

**[21:23]** You have to scroll to see everybody

**[21:27]** else. If you're below the fold in the

**[21:30]** citations, you might as well not even be

**[21:33]** cited there.

**[21:36]** I mean, almost nobody is ever going to

**[21:38]** do that.

**[21:41]** And all those people, Google's using

**[21:43]** your content and they're not even

**[21:45]** willing to show your link.

**[21:49]** That's bad.

**[21:51]** And so yeah, we have to stop thinking

**[21:54]** about pageionation events and start

**[21:58]** thinking about

**[21:59]** how many user interactions

**[22:03]** does it take to see my search result.

**[22:06]** And you need to measure those. And I

**[22:09]** like to use not not page events, page

**[22:13]** one, page two, but page down events. So,

**[22:17]** how many times do you have to hit page

**[22:19]** down to see it? And how many times do

**[22:22]** you have to pageionate?

**[22:24]** And and that's a more useful number.

**[22:28]** Um and because of this you have to find

**[22:32]** out what opportunities

**[22:34]** appear above the fold

**[22:38]** not for headless Chrome but for logged

**[22:41]** in human beings

**[22:43]** because those opportunities that are

**[22:46]** above the fold whether it's Google ads

**[22:49]** or YouTube videos or the local pack or

**[22:52]** the AI overview or the forums and

**[22:55]** discussions

**[22:57]** those are the things that will often be

**[23:00]** above the fold that you can get into

**[23:04]** and that's where the traffic is. So for

**[23:07]** your whole list of keywords, you need to

**[23:09]** know what opportunities

**[23:12]** you can go after to get in front of the

**[23:15]** traffic.

**[23:18]** Now most SEOs are out there and they are

**[23:22]** uh just running a list. They they got a

**[23:24]** list of keywords based on CPC and search

**[23:28]** volume and they're just SEOing the whole

**[23:31]** list, not realizing that probably half

**[23:34]** of that list, at least of the important

**[23:37]** keywords for logged in users are going

**[23:40]** to show four or five pay-per-click ads.

**[23:44]** There is no organic above the full page

**[23:48]** one experience.

**[23:50]** And so for those keywords, if you're

**[23:53]** SEOing those,

**[23:55]** you know, you you're probably gonna

**[23:57]** fight long and hard and deliver no

**[24:00]** value.

**[24:02]** But you could buy a pay-per-click

**[24:04]** campaign for that set of keywords,

**[24:08]** get immediate traffic for the customer.

**[24:11]** But then if you see forums and

**[24:13]** discussions above the fold, then you can

**[24:16]** go to Reddit and start sculpting how

**[24:20]** your brand and your brand's keywords are

**[24:23]** appearing in Reddit and that can get

**[24:25]** above the fold. You can get indirect

**[24:29]** representation.

**[24:31]** You might have to go to Merchant Center

**[24:33]** and tune the feed and get their products

**[24:37]** above the fold. And so this concept of

**[24:40]** SEO, you know, it's always been multi-

**[24:43]** channelannel, but now you kind of have

**[24:46]** to be multi- channelannel.

**[24:49]** So, you know, if if you're not taking on

**[24:52]** these opportunities that are above the

**[24:55]** fold, you're basically not delivering

**[24:58]** value.

**[25:01]** You can't just apply SEO to every

**[25:04]** keyword situation anymore. You have to

**[25:07]** actually triage these things.

**[25:12]** All right.

**[25:14]** So again, what to do? Some keywords only

**[25:19]** have ads above the fold. You know, maybe

**[25:24]** let the ad campaign handle those ones.

**[25:27]** So, we're putting keywords. We're

**[25:29]** looking at what opportunities are above

**[25:32]** the fold on page one and we're putting

**[25:35]** them into buckets. Now, you know, some

**[25:38]** keywords still are great SEO

**[25:41]** opportunities,

**[25:43]** but you have to find them. There are

**[25:45]** keywords where you get 10 blue links and

**[25:49]** five of them are above the full,

**[25:52]** >> but it's not your whole list. That whole

**[25:55]** list you've been working on all year is

**[25:57]** not that, but that's how we all kind of

**[26:01]** see them in our head because that's how

**[26:02]** it used to be 10 years ago.

**[26:07]** A lot of the keywords uh you might SEO

**[26:11]** might might never bring value even in

**[26:14]** the top three.

**[26:17]** And so you have to weigh, you know, how

**[26:20]** difficult it is to get top three. Where

**[26:23]** does top three actually show up on page

**[26:27]** one? Uh how much traffic does the

**[26:30]** keyword get? What is the uh value of a

**[26:35]** customer from that traffic for your

**[26:38]** customer? There there's a lot you have

**[26:41]** to look at to figure out if that keyword

**[26:45]** is actually an opportunity or a complete

**[26:47]** waste of time.

**[26:50]** And so SEOing the whole list, you know,

**[26:54]** for some people, half their list is

**[26:56]** going to be a waste of time if all

**[26:58]** they're doing is organic SEO.

**[27:03]** And that's that's dangerous. That's what

**[27:05]** gets you fired is you have an expensive

**[27:09]** service that delivers no value

**[27:13]** and it takes you a long time to do it.

**[27:16]** So, you know, you might want to start

**[27:19]** looking at your keywords because it's

**[27:22]** not that Google's changing the

**[27:24]** algorithm. The algorithm didn't change.

**[27:28]** The the greatest trick Google has ever

**[27:31]** pulled on the SEO industry is they

**[27:35]** changed the opportunity.

**[27:38]** All right, the opportunities are

**[27:40]** different. We're all thinking, "Damn,

**[27:43]** we're killing it. I'm ranking number

**[27:45]** three. I'm ranking number one." But what

**[27:49]** does that even mean now?

**[27:53]** You think you're killing it and Google

**[27:56]** just got very quiet about SEO. They

**[28:00]** dialed down their rhetoric about SEO.

**[28:03]** They've, you know, they talk about a lot

**[28:05]** of things they're doing, but they don't

**[28:07]** talk about SEO the same way they used to

**[28:11]** like two years ago

**[28:14]** because they know they already won

**[28:17]** [clears throat]

**[28:19]** this current round of the arms race and

**[28:22]** they're saying, "Hey, let's not draw

**[28:23]** attention to it. The SEOs think they're

**[28:26]** killing it with their top three rankings

**[28:29]** everywhere.

**[28:31]** let them think they're winning.

**[28:36]** All right. So, that's that's probably

**[28:38]** why they've gone so quiet and they're

**[28:40]** doubling down on hiring, you know,

**[28:44]** antiscraping engineers.

**[28:48]** >> And so, you really need to look at the

**[28:50]** opportunities because that's where the

**[28:52]** game is changing. triaging those

**[28:55]** keywords upfront and figuring out where

**[28:58]** the opportunities are and are they worth

**[29:01]** going after because if you deliver value

**[29:05]** to the clients they are going to love

**[29:07]** you but if you blindly deliver work that

**[29:12]** doesn't turn into money

**[29:14]** I mean that's a disaster waiting to

**[29:16]** happen

**[29:18]** and that's why that triage understanding

**[29:22]** the opportunity is almost more important

**[29:26]** than the FDO work itself, which frankly

**[29:30]** because of AI has gotten easier.

**[29:37]** All right,

**[29:39]** so new tools and new tests are coming.

**[29:44]** Can't tell you how often we've said it

**[29:47]** and it's never landed. Like people all

**[29:49]** nod and they're like, "Yeah, okay." You

**[29:52]** know, it pays to test. You know, let's

**[29:54]** let's wait for Lee to tell us what to

**[29:57]** do. [laughter]

**[29:59]** You know, we all need to be testing

**[30:02]** right now because it's all changing

**[30:04]** right now.

**[30:06]** All right. And there's never been a more

**[30:09]** important time to know what the hell is

**[30:13]** going on.

**[30:19]** All right. So, in that light, I want to

**[30:22]** show you a a few of the things I'm

**[30:26]** starting to dabble with and to test and

**[30:29]** things that I've seen.

**[30:32]** All right.

**[30:35]** So, this technical gobbledegook, don't

**[30:39]** worry if you can't read it, but this is

**[30:42]** from the headers, the response headers

**[30:45]** coming from Google. And there's this

**[30:48]** Xclient data one. And I will read uh the

**[30:54]** the uh statement that uh Chrome had to

**[30:57]** say about that one. It says uh active

**[31:02]** Google visible variation IDs on this

**[31:06]** client. These are reported for analysis

**[31:11]** but do not directly affect any server

**[31:14]** side behavior. And then they give a list

**[31:17]** of ID numbers.

**[31:20]** And then right below it, they have this

**[31:23]** trigger uh variation list.

**[31:26]** Active Google visible variation IDs on

**[31:31]** this client that trigger serverside

**[31:35]** behavior.

**[31:36]** These are reported for analysis and

**[31:40]** directly affecting serverside behavior.

**[31:45]** All right. So, that's really technical.

**[31:47]** We're all wondering, Ted, what the hell

**[31:49]** are you talking about?

**[31:52]** And chat GPT can actually explain a lot

**[31:56]** of these things. Uh, so that example

**[32:00]** explained,

**[32:02]** my browser session with Google is

**[32:07]** enrolled in 15 experiments.

**[32:10]** Three of them actively influence server

**[32:14]** side behavior.

**[32:17]** >> [ __ ]

**[32:18]** >> Yeah. Kind of crazy, right?

**[32:22]** >> All right. So, so why does Google do

**[32:26]** this? All right. They need to run

**[32:28]** thousands of experiments safely. They

**[32:32]** need to avoid exposing what those

**[32:35]** experiments are. They don't even want us

**[32:37]** to know the names. And that's why they

**[32:39]** hide them by those numbers

**[32:42]** and they change server behaviors but

**[32:46]** without having to roll out new API

**[32:49]** integrations with the client side. uh

**[32:52]** the uh attribute

**[32:56]** uh performance issues to specific

**[32:58]** experiments. That one

**[33:01]** uh

**[33:03]** uh uh the attribute performance issues.

**[33:06]** That one I'm you know I'm not so sure

**[33:08]** about. That's kind of a logging thing

**[33:10]** and it's like h well yeah okay I could

**[33:13]** kind of see that uh gradually rolling

**[33:16]** out new features.

**[33:19]** All right. So, a while ago we were

**[33:23]** talking, you know, years ago, we were

**[33:26]** talking about detecting Google updates.

**[33:31]** Now, we have a list of numbers of things

**[33:35]** Google is doing that are changes. When

**[33:38]** those numbers change,

**[33:41]** that's an update to what you're seeing.

**[33:44]** And now, let's think about our SEO

**[33:46]** tools, okay? How many experiments

**[33:51]** are our headless Chrome SEO tools

**[33:54]** enrolled in that modify the results?

**[33:59]** All right, so that's an apples and

**[34:01]** oranges thing cuz what if your clients

**[34:04]** aren't enrolled in the experiment?

**[34:09]** All right, so now you have differences

**[34:11]** of of what tools and clients see.

**[34:16]** All right, here's where it starts to get

**[34:19]** interesting. when you uh remove these

**[34:24]** numbers. So if you uh created a system

**[34:28]** where the server stripped that heading

**[34:31]** that had all these numbers in it, you

**[34:34]** will disable experiments which will

**[34:38]** change the responses and could possibly

**[34:41]** put you into fallback, you know, default

**[34:44]** behavior.

**[34:46]** Well, that's awesome because then you

**[34:49]** can create a system

**[34:52]** that will disable the numbers one at a

**[34:54]** time and you can get the diff of the

**[34:59]** before and after of the source code and

**[35:04]** theoretically whatever changes from

**[35:07]** removing that number should be what that

**[35:11]** number is testing.

**[35:14]** So you could potentially use HTML diffs

**[35:18]** to convert those numbers into what

**[35:22]** they're doing.

**[35:26]** [clears throat]

**[35:26]** >> Um and that that's amazing. And the

**[35:30]** other thing is you know we would we

**[35:33]** would want to know uh you know which

**[35:36]** things are being rolled out. So when you

**[35:39]** see that a number only appears in the US

**[35:43]** or a number only appears abroad that

**[35:46]** could be a roll out that you know

**[35:49]** especially if that number is growing.

**[35:54]** [clears throat and cough]

**[35:55]** All right.

**[35:58]** So [snorts] another thing I found in the

**[36:00]** data this is a new one.

**[36:04]** Uh, this one kind of blew my mind that

**[36:08]** it's in there

**[36:10]** because what Google typically doesn't

**[36:12]** want you to know

**[36:15]** is how well you're doing.

**[36:18]** All right? It's the reason they took

**[36:21]** away page rank uh from the Google

**[36:24]** toolbar. They don't want you to see how

**[36:28]** well you're killing it. Now, this is for

**[36:32]** local. This is in map search. Every

**[36:36]** single Google business profile, every

**[36:40]** business you're working with has this

**[36:43]** data in the JavaScript in uh map search.

**[36:49]** And what this is, this comes from

**[36:51]** Google. This doesn't come from my

**[36:53]** software or anything. This is Google's

**[36:56]** data. They are showing you these zones.

**[37:00]** So for the business I was looking at

**[37:03]** when I got this data, which was Jean

**[37:06]** Johnson Plumbing in Seattle,

**[37:09]** their strongest zone correlation is the

**[37:13]** Greenwood neighborhood.

**[37:15]** Their second strongest is the zone of

**[37:19]** Seattle. Their third strongest is the

**[37:22]** zone of King County. And they have all

**[37:25]** these applicable zones on where this

**[37:29]** business best fits.

**[37:32]** >> Wow.

**[37:33]** >> So if you want to expand

**[37:37]** uh your rankings at the county level,

**[37:42]** you need to impact that correlation

**[37:45]** number.

**[37:48]** >> All right. So now now you can actually

**[37:52]** go and change the website and change the

**[37:56]** profile and see if these various zone

**[38:00]** correlations changed.

**[38:03]** you can figure out how to tune for a

**[38:06]** county, how to tune for a city, how to

**[38:08]** break out of the Greenwood neighborhood,

**[38:13]** but odds are if uh you're locked into a

**[38:17]** neighborhood,

**[38:19]** you know, that

**[38:21]** that's something we got to figure out.

**[38:23]** We got to test more around this. And

**[38:26]** that's live. That's you can uh you can

**[38:29]** inspect the rendered DOM and find this

**[38:32]** in the JavaScript for each business

**[38:35]** today.

**[38:41]** All right.

**[38:43]** So, kind of kind of bringing it all to a

**[38:47]** close here uh before I take some

**[38:50]** questions. You know, I'm I'm only one

**[38:53]** person and I know a lot of people are

**[38:56]** mad at me that my my updates aren't as

**[38:59]** fast as they'd like. Uh but, you know,

**[39:03]** getting getting the answer right and

**[39:06]** finding the advantage, it's it's not

**[39:09]** easy. Um and so it's not just coding

**[39:14]** cool features, it's actually looking at

**[39:18]** how Google is changing crafting theories

**[39:22]** on why they're doing it and where it's

**[39:25]** going.

**[39:27]** And then it's trying to create solutions

**[39:32]** that that give you the advantage still

**[39:35]** in those scenarios

**[39:38]** and then you get to code it. And so

**[39:42]** everybody's, you know, watching the uh

**[39:45]** TED, why isn't the code coming out

**[39:47]** faster? Well, innovation

**[39:51]** doesn't really lend itself to a

**[39:53]** timetable. If it did, cancer would be

**[39:56]** cured by now and we'd all be living on

**[39:58]** Mars. If you could say, "Do it by next

**[40:01]** quarter," we would, you know, but that's

**[40:04]** that's not how innovation works. How

**[40:07]** innovation works is enough people care

**[40:10]** about a thing uh that together we'll all

**[40:14]** figure it out. And you know,

**[40:16]** [clears throat] kind of right now, you

**[40:18]** know, I'm I'm wondering where did all

**[40:20]** the testers go?

**[40:23]** You know, why why am I the only one

**[40:26]** that's raising the flag on this stuff?

**[40:28]** Why am I the only one that's digging

**[40:31]** deep into this stuff?

**[40:34]** And, you know, I'm happy to be wrong on

**[40:36]** all of it. Boy, that would be awesome.

**[40:39]** And so, yeah, prove me wrong, prove me

**[40:42]** right, find cool things I missed. Uh,

**[40:45]** but we got to do something cuz if it's

**[40:48]** just me, it's going to be really hard.

**[40:53]** It's going to take a lot of time.

**[40:56]** So, you know, my question to you, I've

**[40:59]** shown you some cool stuff here. What are

**[41:02]** you going to do? You can test the

**[41:03]** methods. You can test my advice. You

**[41:06]** could go looking for things I haven't

**[41:08]** found yet.

**[41:10]** And I know Ted, work faster, and I will.

**[41:17]** Um, but you know, that's not the best

**[41:20]** plan on the table.

**[41:23]** All right. Thank you. Does, uh, anyone

**[41:27]** have any questions for me while I'm

**[41:29]** online here?

**[41:31]** >> First, let's give a big round of

**[41:33]** applause. [applause]

**[41:38]** If you have a question, use this

**[41:40]** microphone here. You can hear it through

**[41:41]** here. So, anybody have a question? That

**[41:45]** was very heavy. Can

**[41:46]** >> you get him to tell us how to uh find

**[41:48]** the uh the uh neighborhood?

**[41:52]** >> How do you find the neighborhood zones?

**[41:54]** you uh do a search in Google Maps

**[41:59]** and you'll rightclick on the search

**[42:02]** results

**[42:03]** uh to uh see to uh see the DOM uh HTML.

**[42:10]** So you'll inspect

**[42:13]** and then you will do a uh a control F or

**[42:18]** a command F to find and you'll be able

**[42:21]** to keyword search the DOM and then you

**[42:24]** want to look for the city name in the

**[42:27]** JavaScript

**[42:29]** and then you'll find it in the

**[42:32]** JavaScript and there'll be one for each

**[42:35]** business. So you might want to search

**[42:37]** for the business name in the JavaScript

**[42:40]** and then search for the city name right

**[42:42]** after that. Um the other thing to do is

**[42:46]** to uh parse it out of the uh the data

**[42:50]** and then you can get every business in

**[42:52]** those zones and uh that's something I'm

**[42:55]** doing uh as well. It's one of the new

**[42:57]** adaptations I'm working on. Uh but yeah,

**[43:01]** it's it's there. You can see it for

**[43:04]** yourself. Any

**[43:10]** questions?

**[43:10]** >> Yeah, ask 10 questions. I will. [ __ ]

**[43:13]** that.

**[43:14]** >> Here. You got to have this so he can

**[43:16]** hear you.

**[43:17]** >> Hey, Big Ted.

**[43:18]** >> Hey, how's it going, Mike?

**[43:20]** >> Good. I said, man, if nobody got

**[43:22]** questions for Big Ted, I'mma ask him.

**[43:24]** Hey, I was curious. Have you seen the

**[43:25]** new mid link for Google Maps that shows

**[43:28]** up on the AI overview? Is it like a new

**[43:31]** GMBB URL that's been brought to the

**[43:35]** world since AI overview came out?

**[43:38]** >> Uh, I haven't had a chance to play with

**[43:40]** it, but yes, I've been seeing it. And I

**[43:44]** know in the past Google has tried to

**[43:47]** make it difficult to follow the ID

**[43:50]** chains. So, I I worry about that. Uh,

**[43:54]** but I I don't know what to worry about

**[43:57]** specifically yet.

**[43:59]** Okay. I know you got a lot on your

**[44:01]** testing table and I'm testing the [ __ ]

**[44:03]** out of it. But when you get a chance, if

**[44:05]** you could look deeply into that code and

**[44:07]** tell me if there's anything I should

**[44:09]** know. Uh cuz at first when when that

**[44:12]** link first came out, if you were to grab

**[44:15]** your machine ID and swap it out, it

**[44:17]** wouldn't load like exactly what you're

**[44:19]** saying. They didn't want you to be able

**[44:21]** to do that, especially not manipulate

**[44:22]** it. Uh then change and you can do it.

**[44:26]** And here's a little free nugget for

**[44:27]** y'all, right? uh reviews that come in

**[44:29]** from that link

**[44:33]** stick a lot more. Super nugget, right? I

**[44:36]** was not planning on sharing that.

**[44:38]** Anyway, Ted, thank you so much. That's

**[44:39]** what I wanted to ask you. If you

**[44:43]** >> Absolutely,

**[44:44]** >> Ted. Um I'll I'll show on my

**[44:46]** presentation. There's a new Google map

**[44:48]** link, the mid link that comes in from a

**[44:51]** AI overview suggestion. When you get to

**[44:54]** that map knowledge pan or whatever the

**[44:57]** [ __ ] it's called, if you get a review to

**[44:59]** come in from there, it seems to stick

**[45:02]** longer because I guess they trust it

**[45:04]** more. Why you laughing, Nester? Hey,

**[45:07]** listen. It's rockstars. Got to drop the

**[45:08]** nug. Oh, questions for Ted. Yeah. Yeah.

**[45:10]** Come on. You know, we got to get the

**[45:12]** nuggets from Ted.

**[45:13]** >> Yo. Yo, Ted. Um hello question for about

**[45:17]** I'm building a rank tracker still for

**[45:21]** one custom need and

**[45:23]** >> many challenges you know like um how

**[45:25]** you're scraping the data I I'm

**[45:28]** integrating like data for SEO other APIs

**[45:31]** but still the same blue links that

**[45:33]** there's not anymore it's about pixel but

**[45:36]** there are many other factors that are

**[45:38]** important like hle

**[45:41]** you know um the other stuff like where

**[45:44]** the the the provider this the provider

**[45:48]** of internet uh where you're tracking

**[45:50]** that might change. So in my still I'm

**[45:54]** building the tool but I'm pretty sure

**[45:57]** it's not uh trustworthy but I'm I'm just

**[46:01]** building because I need like the source

**[46:02]** of truth to for showing clients anyway.

**[46:06]** But uh what are your thoughts? I mean I

**[46:08]** was really surprised about this uh login

**[46:12]** accounts. So what I have in mind maybe

**[46:15]** uh connecting a bunch of Google

**[46:17]** accounts. I mean it's so hard you know

**[46:19]** but maybe that could give me a better

**[46:23]** approach but what what possibly

**[46:26]** the clients could see.

**[46:29]** >> Yeah. Yeah. So uh what I'm looking at

**[46:32]** you're exactly right. I think uh pixel

**[46:35]** height and knowing uh the pixel height

**[46:38]** of the fold uh is very important for any

**[46:42]** new modern rank trackers cuz I want a

**[46:44]** rank tracker to tell me what links are

**[46:48]** viewable.

**[46:49]** And so I need to know, you know, is it

**[46:52]** in the viewport? Is it one, two, or

**[46:55]** three user interactions below uh the

**[47:00]** initial viewport?

**[47:02]** uh because that that's more meaningful.

**[47:04]** If uh if somebody has to scroll twice

**[47:08]** then pageionate to find me that's my

**[47:11]** rank position.

**[47:14]** All right. It's not it's not number

**[47:16]** four. It's you know I am three user

**[47:20]** interactions away which pretty much

**[47:23]** means you know my result is dead.

**[47:27]** Um, and you know the problem is is you

**[47:30]** get impression count for things that

**[47:33]** might be four user interactions away. So

**[47:36]** even impression count doesn't mean what

**[47:39]** it used to mean.

**[47:41]** Um, so yeah, we need we need new metrics

**[47:45]** and kind of uh what you need to think

**[47:48]** about is either getting an embedded

**[47:51]** Chrome or piloting a Chrome instance.

**[47:56]** uh but the APIs they're using headless

**[47:59]** Chrome

**[48:01]** and so using the APIs doesn't

**[48:04]** necessarily solve your problem

**[48:07]** and so but if you if you pilot Chrome

**[48:11]** and connect to a debugging port that's

**[48:13]** pretty good if you use uh macro tools to

**[48:18]** open Chrome and put in the mouse buttons

**[48:20]** that'll that'll do the trick. Uh the

**[48:23]** other thing is there are uh for some of

**[48:26]** the languages out there that are popular

**[48:29]** there are embeddible versions of

**[48:31]** Chromium. They cost uh quite a bit of

**[48:34]** money. Uh but you know that's that

**[48:37]** avenue is out there and that's kind of

**[48:38]** the avenue that I'm going down. Um but

**[48:43]** yeah, you know, we we can solve this.

**[48:46]** This is a solvable problem. We just have

**[48:49]** to solve it with new techniques and new

**[48:51]** tools.

**[48:53]** And so your thinking is exactly right on

**[48:55]** that.

**[48:57]** >> Thanks, Ted.

**[49:00]** >> Ted, we have a question from Patrick

**[49:03]** online. In your opinion, what scenarios

**[49:05]** are worth putting the effort into

**[49:07]** ranking in AI overviews?

**[49:12]** >> Um, well, you know, getting getting

**[49:15]** above the fold is important. It's, you

**[49:19]** know, if if you're in the AI overview

**[49:22]** and your brand is refle uh reflected

**[49:26]** positively there,

**[49:29]** uh, you know, that's like having a good

**[49:31]** billboard on the highway. It should

**[49:33]** result in more brand search.

**[49:36]** So, even if they don't engage it, if

**[49:38]** they they see it and they remember you

**[49:41]** and they search your brand later, that's

**[49:43]** value. It's it's hard to attribute that

**[49:47]** value, but you want to be where the

**[49:50]** people are, right?

**[49:53]** And so if AI overviews are in front of

**[49:55]** the people,

**[49:57]** you probably want to be there. And I

**[50:00]** would I would try to get the the brand

**[50:02]** there. And you know, one of the things

**[50:05]** uh we've seen with that is right now

**[50:08]** it's it's kind of exploitable

**[50:11]** uh because

**[50:13]** the AI system is heavily weighting the

**[50:17]** occurrences of Roundup articles. Are you

**[50:21]** number one in a lot of Roundup articles

**[50:24]** for the thing you're doing? Are you top

**[50:27]** three?

**[50:29]** Uh do you appear in any of them?

**[50:32]** So,

**[50:34]** >> you know who who can think of a solution

**[50:37]** for that? Well, let's maybe write some

**[50:39]** roundup articles.

**[50:43]** >> Um, so yeah,

**[50:45]** >> Dory Dory asks, "What's a roundup

**[50:47]** article?"

**[50:48]** >> Um, all right. So, uh, you have a bar

**[50:52]** with a karaoke night.

**[50:55]** Uh, how many articles list you in the

**[50:58]** top 20 karaoke bars for Seattle? And if

**[51:03]** none of them list you, AI knows that.

**[51:08]** If half of them list you, AI knows that.

**[51:11]** If you often appear in the top three, AI

**[51:15]** knows that. That's what it trained on.

**[51:19]** So when you say to AI, you know, what

**[51:22]** are the best places for karaoke in

**[51:25]** Seattle, that's what AI is going to

**[51:28]** consider. And you can actually craft

**[51:31]** your prompts to tell you the ranking

**[51:35]** algorithm.

**[51:36]** Uh that is a huge thing right now that

**[51:41]** people aren't exploiting. You can craft

**[51:43]** your prompt in a way where you say,

**[51:46]** "Write a list of the top 20 karaoke bars

**[51:51]** in Seattle."

**[51:53]** And put them in a table along with the

**[51:56]** criteria

**[51:58]** you considered

**[52:00]** for ranking them in that position

**[52:04]** and site any applicable sources. It'll

**[52:07]** even tell you the roundup articles.

**[52:11]** >> Yeah. facts.

**[52:12]** >> Bro, give it up for Ted because if you

**[52:14]** don't understand what he's saying,

**[52:15]** [applause]

**[52:16]** he was in the VIP lounge last night. We

**[52:18]** was talking about this, Brad. One of the

**[52:19]** other speakers, Google Gemini, be

**[52:21]** dropping the T. If you don't know what T

**[52:24]** means, it means the gossip. Like, yo,

**[52:26]** how do I get my GMBB back? Ask Gemini.

**[52:28]** You'd be surprised that [ __ ]

**[52:30]** give you a checklist there at the end.

**[52:32]** That's what he's talking about. you go

**[52:34]** back and forth and chat with the [ __ ]

**[52:36]** with the right intention and prompting

**[52:38]** to reverse engineer what's getting not

**[52:41]** the rankings, the revenue, right? Where

**[52:43]** are the buyers at? Bro, it's just it's

**[52:45]** right there so easy for now. That was a

**[52:47]** huge nugget. Thank you, bro.

**[52:49]** >> Yeah,

**[52:50]** >> you're welcome.

**[52:52]** >> Keep going. Please. [laughter]

**[52:57]** >> He said keep going.

**[52:58]** >> Yeah. Ask him to touch on the so the

**[53:00]** listicles thing, right?

**[53:01]** >> What's the listical thing? round up

**[53:03]** listicles like listical articles like

**[53:05]** hey top 10 x in gio right a lot of

**[53:08]** people are scared to write an article a

**[53:10]** lot of people are scared

**[53:12]** >> a lot of people are scared to write an

**[53:14]** article right like on your client's site

**[53:15]** or your site like yo 10 best roofers in

**[53:18]** Texas because like why

**[53:20]** >> why are you gonna mention another brand

**[53:22]** on your website but if you've ever done

**[53:24]** that right you're ranking in the AI

**[53:27]** overview I guarantee it without any

**[53:29]** question of a doubt right now you'll be

**[53:31]** like

**[53:31]** >> go ahead

**[53:32]** It's important for the the rankings in

**[53:36]** uh map search, too. Google's looking for

**[53:39]** multip multiple forms of evidence that

**[53:43]** your claims are true. So, it's it's not

**[53:45]** just that your reviews talk about how

**[53:48]** great the karaoke event is at the bar.

**[53:52]** That helps. That's one dimension. But

**[53:54]** they are also collecting and storing and

**[53:58]** sometimes presenting those list

**[54:01]** articles. I have screenshots from past

**[54:05]** presentations at SEO Rockstars where I

**[54:09]** showed you the list articles being

**[54:13]** presented in map search.

**[54:16]** So if they're looking for them,

**[54:19]** >> if they're collecting them into these

**[54:21]** massive big data databases and they're

**[54:25]** sometimes even presenting them in the

**[54:28]** search results, what are the odds

**[54:31]** they're rank uh they're calculating the

**[54:34]** rank score with them as well?

**[54:37]** >> Yeah,

**[54:38]** >> absolutely. I I'll I'll piggyback a

**[54:40]** little nugget too, right? So, like don't

**[54:42]** do it on your client site what I had

**[54:44]** just said, you know, cuz be respectful,

**[54:46]** but you could go buy an exact match

**[54:49]** domain like best roofers texas.net.com.

**[54:53]** Make it a little [ __ ] directory

**[54:54]** site. You don't got to get crazy with

**[54:56]** it, right? And just reference the top 10

**[54:57]** people, right? And then,

**[54:59]** >> well, there's a better way.

**[55:01]** >> Go Ted. Go ahead, baby. Drop it. Give it

**[55:03]** to them.

**[55:04]** >> Yeah. uh you know I teach a a lot of

**[55:07]** local SEOs uh who are are are just

**[55:11]** getting started and one of the things

**[55:13]** I'm teaching now is that uh every local

**[55:17]** SEO needs to be three to five travel

**[55:21]** bloggers.

**[55:22]** So create your travel bloggers because

**[55:26]** you need to change topics and locations

**[55:30]** left and right. So you need websites

**[55:33]** where that's appropriate and expected.

**[55:37]** So if you are three to five travel

**[55:41]** blogging personas, you can be talking

**[55:44]** about the best dry cleaners in uh

**[55:49]** uh in Berlin and then you can switch to

**[55:52]** the best cajinjun restaurants in

**[55:56]** Alabama. then you can switch to the best

**[56:00]** uh karaoke bars in Seattle and you can

**[56:03]** do it all the time. And here's the

**[56:05]** thing, all of your local SEO

**[56:08]** competition,

**[56:10]** none of them are thinking this way. None

**[56:13]** of them are doing this. And so it when

**[56:17]** Google is looking in its database, are

**[56:20]** there any roundup articles uh for this

**[56:24]** keyword for these businesses?

**[56:27]** If you have three to five, even if

**[56:30]** they're not powerful, at least you have

**[56:33]** three to five entries where nearly

**[56:36]** everyone else has zero.

**[56:40]** >> Absolutely.

**[56:42]** >> Give it up for Ted. Any questions for

**[56:45]** Ted?

**[56:47]** Guys, I'mma finish that thought separate

**[56:49]** from what he's saying. Not compared,

**[56:51]** totally different exact match domain,

**[56:53]** right? List the top 10 or whatever the

**[56:56]** do the research like he said. Ask

**[56:58]** Gemini.

**[57:00]** >> That's what I'm saying. Yes, of course.

**[57:01]** And your link is the only one that's

**[57:04]** outbound, the only do follow link, the

**[57:06]** only map that's inbed. Everything else

**[57:08]** is an image that doesn't click out. So,

**[57:10]** it's not really it's a [ __ ] list of

**[57:12]** you control. do that for best geo, best

**[57:16]** service in geo, not just a category. So,

**[57:18]** not just best roofer if it's

**[57:20]** competitive, best metal roofer, best

**[57:22]** roof inspector, best and you'll [ __ ]

**[57:24]** smash and you'll get the AI overview in

**[57:26]** less than three, four, five days.

**[57:29]** >> Yeah. And in your roundup articles,

**[57:33]** don't list the obvious best competitors.

**[57:37]** Go find the the 19 worst ones and put

**[57:41]** yourself [laughter] at the top.

**[57:43]** >> Yeah, you can hold this question.

**[57:46]** Why don't you just create a couple lead

**[57:50]** genen sites and then list all those lead

**[57:52]** genen sites as your competitors many

**[57:54]** ways. So guys, real quick, just to say

**[57:56]** because you guys are having a lot of

**[57:57]** thought. There's literally so many ways

**[57:59]** to do this. That's why I started off

**[58:01]** with a directory [ __ ] directory. You

**[58:02]** can do a full-blown directory site and

**[58:04]** now that's it. You could do either

**[58:06]** either niche or just every city and

**[58:08]** state. And there you go. That one thing,

**[58:10]** subdomain or not, can do everything

**[58:12]** we're covering. I also have dyslexia.

**[58:14]** So, please let me ask a question. Is a

**[58:16]** roundup and a listical the same thing or

**[58:18]** am I mixing the two things up?

**[58:21]** >> Sometime I want to make sure I'm not

**[58:22]** bugging the [ __ ] out. All right. Cool.

**[58:23]** Cool. So, yeah, guys, it could be a lead

**[58:25]** genen site like you said, lead genen

**[58:28]** directory PDN

**[58:31]** like like Ted said, which is very smart.

**[58:33]** personas, bloggers, mommy blog. He had a

**[58:36]** question first, then we'll come to you.

**[58:38]** Okay,

**[58:38]** >> great.

**[58:38]** >> So Ted, I was gonna ask a more of a

**[58:40]** technical one. What if in a certain area

**[58:44]** you cannot you can get in big trouble if

**[58:46]** you were use the word best, right? So

**[58:49]** like from the law practice, we're

**[58:52]** restricted on that word, right? And I

**[58:53]** know people do it, but but it's a real

**[58:56]** red flag with the bar. What what would

**[58:58]** you suggest in building that?

**[59:01]** >> Yeah. in any regulated space you you

**[59:05]** really have to follow the letter of the

**[59:08]** law. Uh but there is nothing against

**[59:12]** emphasized numbers in the rankings.

**[59:17]** So if you say this is a list of DUI

**[59:20]** lawyers in Seattle, there's no reason

**[59:23]** you can't make the top three bold and

**[59:26]** larger font. [laughter]

**[59:32]** Go ahead. So Sean, you had a question.

**[59:35]** Okay, go ahead.

**[59:37]** >> I just have one question. Well, it

**[59:39]** doesn't matter.

**[59:40]** >> Can you hear that, Mike?

**[59:41]** >> Oh, is that mic?

**[59:42]** >> Yeah. Yeah, I can hear.

**[59:44]** >> Okay, great.

**[59:44]** >> Okay. All I wanted to is you need to

**[59:48]** give a plug for the the local SEO uh uh

**[59:52]** courses and helping that you can give

**[59:54]** some of of us out here. You said you

**[59:57]** said you're teaching some people. How

**[01:00:00]** can we get there?

**[01:00:02]** >> All right, here's here's the crazy

**[01:00:04]** thing. I actually don't charge for my

**[01:00:08]** training if you subscribe to my

**[01:00:10]** software.

**[01:00:12]** >> And even even if you end up not using my

**[01:00:16]** software, which would be insane, uh

**[01:00:19]** you're you're looking at $250

**[01:00:22]** for the training then.

**[01:00:25]** And everybody knows this software,

**[01:00:27]** right?

**[01:00:29]** >> Yeah. Yeah. It's a no pitch thing, but

**[01:00:31]** it was a question.

**[01:00:36]** >> Any other questions for Ted?

**[01:00:39]** >> No. Y'all sure? Go on once. All right.

**[01:00:40]** There you go. Smart man.

**[01:00:43]** >> Hold on. Hold on. Corora. C O R A.

**[01:00:47]** >> Any last questions for Ted?

**[01:00:49]** You sure y'all? All right. Hey, Ted. I

**[01:00:52]** got one. If you don't mind, I got a last

**[01:00:54]** I got. Yeah. Yeah. Bring it on.

**[01:00:56]** >> The last time you was breaking down the

**[01:00:58]** the schema zones to me, right, and the

**[01:01:01]** importance of certain zones and

**[01:01:02]** elements, right? Is that did you come up

**[01:01:05]** with anything

**[01:01:07]** >> uh any update on that that Merino might

**[01:01:09]** want to know?

**[01:01:11]** >> Uh

**[01:01:13]** yeah. Um you know, it's it's it's kind

**[01:01:17]** of

**[01:01:17]** >> private.

**[01:01:18]** >> No, no, it's not private. It's uh you

**[01:01:22]** know the the main thing we learned from

**[01:01:25]** Terry Samuels and Clint Butler's nothing

**[01:01:28]** but schema uh thing is that a schema is

**[01:01:33]** most definitely hardwired into the

**[01:01:36]** ranking system. So if you've been

**[01:01:39]** neglecting schema you really need to

**[01:01:42]** stop doing that. Uh the next thing is

**[01:01:45]** that I found that uh the most important

**[01:01:48]** fields in the schema are the description

**[01:01:51]** fields and that's where you can get

**[01:01:55]** really crazy value. You need to pull a

**[01:01:59]** uh a Kyle roof rhinoplasty plano thing

**[01:02:04]** in in your schema. You know, it doesn't

**[01:02:06]** have to be gibberish, but man, your

**[01:02:09]** topical relevancy, the entities need to

**[01:02:12]** be in there. All the keyword variations

**[01:02:15]** need to be in there. You need to be

**[01:02:17]** extremely verbose in those description

**[01:02:21]** fields. You don't put in a sevenword

**[01:02:24]** sentence. That's not going to cut it.

**[01:02:26]** And here's the thing, the words in your

**[01:02:30]** schema

**[01:02:32]** need to match the words on your page.

**[01:02:36]** All right? The visible words in the

**[01:02:38]** content. If you only put the words in

**[01:02:41]** the schema, they don't count. All right?

**[01:02:46]** >> So,

**[01:02:47]** >> so hold up, hold up, Ted, Ted, one

**[01:02:49]** second. Y'all heard that.

**[01:02:50]** >> No,

**[01:02:51]** >> Ted, say it again, please, because

**[01:02:53]** that's super huge. All right. If you

**[01:02:56]** only put the words in the schema, they

**[01:03:00]** won't count. The only words that count

**[01:03:03]** in schema are the words that match words

**[01:03:06]** in the content. When the words, the

**[01:03:09]** entities and the keywords in the schema

**[01:03:13]** match the entities and the keywords on

**[01:03:16]** the page and the headings and the title

**[01:03:18]** and the paragraphs,

**[01:03:21]** that's when the magic happens. when you

**[01:03:24]** uh go back to, you know, past videos and

**[01:03:28]** rock stars when Clint Butler showed his

**[01:03:31]** Fountain Hills example,

**[01:03:34]** he doesn't rank for Fountain Hills

**[01:03:37]** Clint.

**[01:03:39]** He doesn't rank for it. Google doesn't

**[01:03:42]** even think he has a page for it, even

**[01:03:45]** though his schema says Clint Butler 12

**[01:03:48]** times.

**[01:03:50]** he would have to put his name in the

**[01:03:53]** content of the page to rank for that.

**[01:03:56]** And if he did that, he'd rank number one

**[01:03:58]** for it.

**[01:04:00]** >> But it's in the schema only, so it

**[01:04:03]** doesn't work.

**[01:04:05]** >> But I'm sorry, Ted, because you know,

**[01:04:08]** you know I'm a learner. Are you saying,

**[01:04:10]** bro, that all the times, even me, bro,

**[01:04:12]** that I tried to be slick and and stuck

**[01:04:15]** for a whole bunch of [ __ ] in the schema

**[01:04:17]** that wasn't on a one page landing page,

**[01:04:19]** you know, like that? That's why it

**[01:04:20]** wasn't working or moving that much. And

**[01:04:22]** if it was moving, it wasn't because of

**[01:04:24]** that.

**[01:04:24]** >> Yeah, because I didn't know. Who here

**[01:04:26]** knew that? Time out, bro. You knew that,

**[01:04:29]** Sean. Okay. Who else knew that?

**[01:04:30]** >> Two people. Okay. I'm say I want I want

**[01:04:33]** to Is that Brian? Okay. Yeah, that one I

**[01:04:35]** could believe. Wait, you learned it from

**[01:04:36]** him,

**[01:04:36]** >> Sean?

**[01:04:38]** Okay, that's why. All right,

**[01:04:40]** >> that's uh Hey, Ted, that's a huge

**[01:04:42]** nugget. And real quick, this is like a

**[01:04:45]** no pitch event, but this is our event,

**[01:04:47]** right? And he just referenced past

**[01:04:49]** presentations, right? I don't know if

**[01:04:51]** you guys know cuz maybe it hasn't been

**[01:04:53]** advertised fully and properly, but the

**[01:04:56]** big rockstar package comes with access

**[01:04:59]** to all the videos and pre presentations

**[01:05:03]** from all 12 years. Then I created a

**[01:05:06]** custom rag chat. So you could talk with

**[01:05:08]** it. So you could literally go press or

**[01:05:11]** type, hey, what do Clint and Terry say

**[01:05:14]** about schema? And it'll give you an

**[01:05:16]** answer and it'll lead to their

**[01:05:17]** presentations. I'm also building SOPs

**[01:05:20]** based off though. Not a complete SOP as

**[01:05:23]** much as I can from a a presentation

**[01:05:26]** based off those because again, we here

**[01:05:28]** at Rockstars, we want you to have a good

**[01:05:31]** time, but we want you to implement kill

**[01:05:33]** it and go enjoy life with your family.

**[01:05:34]** Sorry. Go ahead. Keep going, Ted. Thank

**[01:05:36]** you so much for this, bro.

**[01:05:38]** >> Yeah. Yeah. That rag prompt, uh, what

**[01:05:41]** does rock stars have to say about

**[01:05:44]** Fountain Hills is probably the money

**[01:05:47]** prompt.

**[01:05:48]** Um and yeah, so how how that works is uh

**[01:05:55]** the decision to index or not index a

**[01:05:59]** page for a keyword is a different system

**[01:06:04]** than where should a page rank for a

**[01:06:07]** keyword. Those are two independent

**[01:06:10]** systems in Google.

**[01:06:13]** So uh what's happening is Google is

**[01:06:18]** saying uh if a keyword is uh only in the

**[01:06:24]** schema, well that's a no index zone.

**[01:06:27]** It's only going to index the the

**[01:06:30]** appropriate content. It's not going to

**[01:06:32]** index uh the schema by itself. So if you

**[01:06:36]** put a test keyword into schema and

**[01:06:40]** nowhere else that test keyword will

**[01:06:43]** never become findable in search.

**[01:06:46]** So to make it findable it needs to be in

**[01:06:49]** your title or heading or paragraphs.

**[01:06:53]** But

**[01:06:55]** when it is there uh the ranking system

**[01:06:59]** is going to look at that schema and say

**[01:07:01]** look at all this topical relevancy and

**[01:07:04]** keyword density and exact match and term

**[01:07:07]** frequency and boom it's going to apply

**[01:07:10]** all of that relevancy

**[01:07:13]** to your content where it matches.

**[01:07:17]** So by itself schema is a no index zone.

**[01:07:20]** It needs to be in your content to become

**[01:07:22]** findable, but once it's findable, that

**[01:07:26]** schema is going to boost the [ __ ] out of

**[01:07:28]** it.

**[01:07:32]** >> I got question master class.

**[01:07:35]** >> Here you go, sir. Jordan,

**[01:07:37]** >> this is Jordan. Hey, if we use about and

**[01:07:39]** mention schema, right? And like I do

**[01:07:42]** medical, so there's two procedures that

**[01:07:44]** have the same name. refractive lens

**[01:07:46]** exchange,

**[01:07:48]** lens replacement. On the page, we might

**[01:07:50]** have the word refractive lens exchange.

**[01:07:53]** The Wikipedia listing calls it custom

**[01:07:56]** lens replacement in that about and

**[01:07:59]** mention schema. Then you're saying we

**[01:08:01]** should use refractive lens exchange as

**[01:08:04]** the word and then link to the Wikipedia

**[01:08:07]** article that has a slightly different

**[01:08:09]** name.

**[01:08:11]** All right. So,

**[01:08:13]** >> the the aboutton mentions uh there's a

**[01:08:16]** bit more of an art to it. So, when when

**[01:08:19]** I uh redid Terry and Clint's experiment,

**[01:08:25]** I tried to get to minimum viable SEO.

**[01:08:28]** So, initially I I tried everything and

**[01:08:31]** all of it and and I couldn't get the

**[01:08:34]** about and mention stuff to create a

**[01:08:36]** measurable outcome. Not that it wasn't

**[01:08:39]** doing anything, it's just my test was

**[01:08:42]** inconclusive because I probably [ __ ]

**[01:08:44]** it up somehow. Um, but the thing you

**[01:08:48]** want to be careful with is when you

**[01:08:51]** start putting in those entity

**[01:08:53]** references, you need to make sure that

**[01:08:56]** all of them are topically relevant. So,

**[01:09:00]** for example,

**[01:09:02]** uh I'm going to go off topic on you. If

**[01:09:04]** the keyword is boat insurance

**[01:09:08]** and you start putting in a lot of

**[01:09:10]** boating terms into your entity

**[01:09:13]** references,

**[01:09:15]** all right, Google might start to think

**[01:09:17]** it's a page about boats,

**[01:09:20]** but what are you selling?

**[01:09:23]** Insurance.

**[01:09:24]** So, you need you need to remember that

**[01:09:27]** topical relevancy has a balance to it.

**[01:09:31]** We need we need it to be strongly

**[01:09:34]** insurance because that's what we're

**[01:09:36]** selling with a sprinkle of of boat and

**[01:09:41]** we definitely don't need, you know,

**[01:09:43]** masks and anchors and main sails and and

**[01:09:47]** all that stuff because we're not selling

**[01:09:50]** any of those things. So yeah, so be

**[01:09:55]** careful about the topical balance. So if

**[01:09:58]** you have a dedicated page for that, you

**[01:10:01]** know, you probably want all those

**[01:10:03]** important terms and incarnations of

**[01:10:06]** them, but there is going to be a

**[01:10:08]** canonical entity that you probably need

**[01:10:11]** to say same as and mentions and knows

**[01:10:14]** about and that's a disambiguation thing.

**[01:10:18]** So you're you're trying to corner

**[01:10:21]** yourself into a topical space. [snorts]

**[01:10:25]** Um and uh similarly like if you are

**[01:10:28]** trying to rank a page for apple pie

**[01:10:32]** and you put in you knows about blueberry

**[01:10:36]** pies, peacon pies, key lime pies, you

**[01:10:40]** know that's that's kind of going off

**[01:10:42]** topic when you start to make your page

**[01:10:44]** about all pies. How should a page about

**[01:10:48]** all pies rank compared to a page that's

**[01:10:51]** only about apple pie and is talking

**[01:10:54]** about making apple pies? 100% about

**[01:10:58]** apple pies when you're trying to rank

**[01:11:00]** for apple pies.

**[01:11:02]** So topical focus is important, but it's

**[01:11:06]** an art form. Nobody's uh cracked the

**[01:11:10]** equation on topical

**[01:11:14]** density, topical relevancy. We know it's

**[01:11:17]** a thing. There are people with methods,

**[01:11:20]** but it has not been totally figured out

**[01:11:24]** yet

**[01:11:27]** >> yet.

**[01:11:28]** >> So,

**[01:11:30]** >> hey Ted.

**[01:11:31]** >> Okay,

**[01:11:32]** >> we have one question.

**[01:11:33]** >> Okay, what's the question? Let's do the

**[01:11:35]** question first.

**[01:11:36]** Is there a way to find only the primary

**[01:11:39]** keywords that are above the fold using

**[01:11:42]** Kora?

**[01:11:43]** >> Ted, did you hear that? Is there a way

**[01:11:44]** to find only the primary keywords above

**[01:11:46]** the fold using Kora? Did I get it right?

**[01:11:49]** >> Uh, no. That's that's what I'm building.

**[01:11:53]** So switching uh to an above the fold uh

**[01:11:59]** type of mentality means that you have to

**[01:12:03]** work with JavaScript in a browser

**[01:12:06]** instance cuz you have to calculate the

**[01:12:09]** pixel heights of where the fold is and

**[01:12:13]** what content is visible above that fold.

**[01:12:16]** It is doable. I am coding it. other

**[01:12:20]** people are coding it when it was

**[01:12:22]** mentioned before a rank tracker with

**[01:12:24]** pixel height. That's what they're

**[01:12:27]** talking about. Those are the new tools

**[01:12:29]** that are coming but aren't out yet. And

**[01:12:33]** uh you know that's that's kind of where

**[01:12:35]** it's going to be for getting those KPIs.

**[01:12:38]** But all of that stuff is in the works

**[01:12:40]** from multiple businesses. I'm not the

**[01:12:43]** only one. Uh but yeah, your instincts

**[01:12:46]** are right. That's what we want. Another

**[01:12:50]** question is Google still not crawling

**[01:12:52]** JavaScript at certain times of the year?

**[01:12:56]** >> Yes. Uh when Google does a major uh

**[01:13:01]** update, usually the big core updates,

**[01:13:05]** they will pause rendered indexing.

**[01:13:09]** And so that means if you're using Edge

**[01:13:13]** SEO, these systems where JavaScript

**[01:13:17]** remotely manages SEO on the page, if

**[01:13:21]** you're using

**[01:13:23]** uh JavaScript frameworks that don't do

**[01:13:27]** server side rendering properly, all of

**[01:13:30]** your SEO vanishes because it was in the

**[01:13:34]** JavaScript and Google stopped doing it.

**[01:13:37]** And so what happens is whenever there's

**[01:13:40]** one of those big core updates, I

**[01:13:43]** inevitably get one or two people. The

**[01:13:46]** last time it happened to me, it was the

**[01:13:48]** SEO at Verizon. He was like, Ted, uh,

**[01:13:52]** the company wants to fire me because all

**[01:13:55]** of our rankings disappeared at the same

**[01:13:58]** time and all the engineers are saying

**[01:14:02]** that's an SEO problem.

**[01:14:04]** No, it's not.

**[01:14:07]** You can put a test keyword into those

**[01:14:11]** JavaScript content zones and demonstrate

**[01:14:15]** that they never become findable in

**[01:14:18]** search while a core updates rolling out.

**[01:14:22]** And it wasn't the SEO's decision to use

**[01:14:26]** those JavaScript architectures.

**[01:14:29]** That was an engineering choice. And so

**[01:14:32]** it's provable if you understand what's

**[01:14:36]** going on. But yeah, those things uh you

**[01:14:40]** can expect a JavaScript framework

**[01:14:43]** scenario or an edge SEO scenario to fail

**[01:14:48]** you about 25% of the time.

**[01:14:52]** And that's why when I was making mine, I

**[01:14:54]** scrapped it. That's not good enough.

**[01:14:57]** >> Thank you so much, Ted. We really

**[01:14:58]** appreciate it.

**[01:15:00]** >> Everybody give it up for Ted. [applause]

**[01:15:02]** Thank you so