# SEO Rockstars 2026: Day 1 - Panel Discussion

**Video URL:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDXSq5Jrgf8

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## Transcript

**[00:04]** Just kind of like a little round up.

**[00:05]** >> Anybody ask them anything? I have a

**[00:08]** question for that.

**[00:09]** >> Yes.

**[00:10]** >> Um, just out of curiosity, when you buy

**[00:14]** the domains,

**[00:17]** what domain broker do you use?

**[00:20]** >> Number one. And number two, when you

**[00:22]** when you talked about transferring how

**[00:24]** GoDaddyy's going to let you transfer to

**[00:28]** let's I don't know how you explained it,

**[00:30]** but basically if you already own a

**[00:31]** domain like you use the example

**[00:33]** laptops.com

**[00:35]** and you want to convert it to a stay in

**[00:37]** a GoDaddy system.

**[00:39]** >> Answer that second one. Uh do do two

**[00:41]** like this. Does that help you better for

**[00:42]** the recording? Okay, I get two fisted.

**[00:45]** All right. So the um the answer to the

**[00:48]** second question she asked if

**[00:51]** you're going to go transfer say from

**[00:55]** GoDaddy or to it's one to tokenize a

**[00:57]** domain and potentially sell. Okay. So

**[00:59]** that one is a web three thing and that

**[01:01]** one is currently used through a company

**[01:02]** called Deora and that's tied in with

**[01:04]** free name. So freeame is the first if I

**[01:06]** believe correctly and I may be wrong but

**[01:08]** I believe it's the only registar that's

**[01:10]** a combination of web three domains where

**[01:12]** you could actually own the whatever and

**[01:14]** something customized uh the one that's

**[01:16]** out there unstoppable has a suite of dot

**[01:19]** extensions uh crypton things like that

**[01:23]** uh ETH and ETH and one or two others are

**[01:25]** the only ones that have um recurring

**[01:27]** renewal fees the others are onetime

**[01:29]** purchase only but so freeame is also

**[01:31]** simultaneously an I can approved

**[01:33]** registar So you transfer out of GoDaddy

**[01:36]** your account, transfer it into Freeame

**[01:39]** when everything does in the 24, 48 hour,

**[01:41]** whatever propagation time of the

**[01:43]** transfer. Once it's in your account, you

**[01:45]** then would link it up with Deora. And

**[01:48]** then that has to have, I believe, a

**[01:49]** three-year minimum domain registration.

**[01:51]** And then at that point, you could put it

**[01:53]** out there and tokenize the domain if you

**[01:55]** so choose. Again, that's some

**[01:56]** jurisdiction issues because we're here

**[01:57]** in the US, but that would allow you to

**[01:59]** fractionalize your domain. Um and

**[02:01]** therefore it would stay there in their

**[02:03]** marketplace their aftermarket you could

**[02:05]** send traffic to it. Uh the link the

**[02:08]** landing page does index simultaneously.

**[02:10]** I forgot to mention that. So if you want

**[02:12]** to have it rank you know their reseller

**[02:14]** page or their aftermarket page ranks and

**[02:17]** then that also begins a process where

**[02:19]** you could market it and other people if

**[02:20]** they so choose you can market yourself

**[02:22]** or others who are familiar with it could

**[02:24]** start to buy fractional pieces of a high

**[02:26]** premium domain like laptops.com.

**[02:29]** Um, so but I'll walk you through the

**[02:31]** mechanics later and and no, the first

**[02:33]** part of your question again was which

**[02:34]** one?

**[02:37]** >> I kind of lost it, but uh the first part

**[02:39]** I think you answered how you tokenize.

**[02:41]** The second part is if you were just to

**[02:43]** buy a domain that's decentralized, would

**[02:46]** you use free names?

**[02:48]** >> Uh, yes and no. The free name will allow

**[02:50]** you to get the NFT and the minting and

**[02:51]** the customization. So you have all that

**[02:53]** flexibility. However, if you want to buy

**[02:55]** just to rank for something quickly where

**[02:58]** uh I think I mentioned what that

**[02:59]** dappling network whatever limo that used

**[03:01]** to be spit out when people would do the

**[03:03]** HTML pages uploaded to GitHub and then

**[03:05]** exported out to the various ports kind

**[03:07]** of like a hub and spoke model. That's

**[03:09]** when you'd pay. You could go to

**[03:10]** Unstoppable by Richardson texas or

**[03:13]** whatever you'd like. Um pay your $5

**[03:15]** domain renewal and then have your

**[03:16]** decentralized hosting connected with it.

**[03:19]** And that's the one that normally won't

**[03:20]** rank in Google, but if you add limo

**[03:23]** orlink to the end of it, it will show up

**[03:26]** in a regular web browser and that's

**[03:27]** crawable. And that one typically has a

**[03:29]** DR of like a 71 72 something like that.

**[03:32]** >> Dang.

**[03:33]** >> For for indexing and that's depending on

**[03:35]** the price point. If you get a longtail

**[03:36]** keyword, you could then depending on

**[03:38]** where you host your content because they

**[03:39]** have also Unstoppable gives you a

**[03:42]** profile URL on ud.mme

**[03:46]** whatever. And I I did one here for us. I

**[03:48]** think I did SEO conference.learn. I paid

**[03:50]** like two bucks for it. It's in my crypto

**[03:52]** wallet. I'll transfer, you know,

**[03:53]** afterwards. And then I'm trying to get

**[03:54]** that one indexed. I don't know what the

**[03:56]** DR is, but that interim page links to

**[03:58]** rockstarsconference.com.

**[04:00]** You get that as a bonus. But then if you

**[04:01]** take the extra time um to

**[04:03]** [clears throat] do the ETH and build out

**[04:04]** a like an HTML page or a couple pages,

**[04:07]** that's where you get the higher DR and

**[04:09]** it can index pretty quickly because it's

**[04:10]** whatever subdomain.

**[04:12]** Orlink. Uh but it doesn't work on any of

**[04:15]** the others. Crypto.limo.nf. NFT nothing

**[04:18]** yet hopefully that's coming up soon but

**[04:20]** just where we are right now it's rolling

**[04:22]** the clock back to HTML pages that were

**[04:24]** ranking in Google like in 2003 and the

**[04:26]** web 3 version they have they have a

**[04:28]** while to catch up

**[04:29]** >> talk about decentralized posting

**[04:31]** >> ah uh there are three of them right now

**[04:34]** one is a centralized sorry they have a

**[04:36]** platform where you can build like a

**[04:37]** customized site where there are

**[04:38]** different blocks but you can integrate

**[04:39]** all the different things in YouTube uh

**[04:41]** I'm sorry the answer to the question she

**[04:43]** asked about decentralized hosting I

**[04:44]** didn't forgot to mention her her

**[04:45]** question so you have the decentralized

**[04:47]** hosting and then they allow storage or

**[04:50]** an annual renewal fee where they allow

**[04:51]** like a branding of a URL and stuff but

**[04:53]** it's kind of clunky. That's one. There's

**[04:56]** another one out there called Pinata uh

**[04:58]** where you can pin things and they call

**[05:00]** like IPFS gateways. They give you an

**[05:01]** IPFS or a CD or a hash number and then

**[05:04]** you could append that to the various

**[05:06]** gateways and that opens up a brand new

**[05:08]** set of URLs. So you have a front-end URL

**[05:10]** that's different.

**[05:12]** It's kind of like um what was the old

**[05:14]** thing where you could do uh URL

**[05:16]** manipulation where you could change

**[05:17]** everything in the front end, but you in

**[05:18]** a text file you copy replace and you'd

**[05:20]** end up with X amount of front-end

**[05:21]** domains and you could send like your

**[05:23]** tier two links and stuff. It's perfect

**[05:24]** for tier two links because they're

**[05:25]** otherwise orphan pages, but if that

**[05:28]** still has efficacy in your SERs, it may

**[05:30]** not, especially for maps and AI, it's a

**[05:33]** little tricky right now, but you can

**[05:34]** still get the back links and then power

**[05:36]** everything up and at least power your

**[05:37]** juice up in combination with everything

**[05:39]** else we learned here. You know, more the

**[05:40]** more advanced stuff, but especially with

**[05:42]** the on page. Sean, thanks for everything

**[05:43]** on that. It was fascinating.

**[05:45]** >> I'd say your stuff is pretty advanced.

**[05:47]** [laughter]

**[05:49]** >> No, but but it would be more of a

**[05:51]** complimentary strategy right now. I

**[05:52]** don't believe it's a standalone.

**[05:54]** >> Yeah. But don't downplay yourself,

**[05:58]** right? You're like,

**[06:00]** >> if it goes where it's probably going to

**[06:03]** go, you're the forefather of this [ __ ]

**[06:05]** Think about that. Right.

**[06:07]** >> Thanks. Let it

**[06:07]** >> manifest. I'm I'm so wrapped up in the

**[06:09]** lab. I I can't see the fact, brother.

**[06:11]** I've been watching you grind on this for

**[06:12]** two and a half or three years. Me,

**[06:14]** myself, I'm a tester. It'll come. Watch.

**[06:17]** Thanks.

**[06:17]** >> You know what I And when it does, you're

**[06:19]** going to feel so [ __ ] justified cuz

**[06:21]** like, yo, I told you everything

**[06:23]** [laughter] you saying, you know, right

**[06:24]** now it's not, but it might. But it

**[06:25]** might, but it might. I heard a lot of

**[06:27]** but it might. One of them shits is going

**[06:29]** to turn and you're going to be right

**[06:31]** there ready to take advantage of it. And

**[06:33]** so should we be, right? If we know how

**[06:35]** to follow, stay in contact with Matt.

**[06:37]** And I know that's a lot to take in,

**[06:39]** right? But remember what I said. Also,

**[06:41]** I'mma do my best to make it

**[06:43]** >> and give you something where you could

**[06:45]** kind of go and implement. I might need

**[06:47]** your help with that because I don't know

**[06:48]** if just coding and your presentation

**[06:50]** enough. I'll probably have to touch

**[06:52]** base.

**[06:52]** >> Thank you.

**[06:53]** >> Awesome.

**[06:53]** >> Guys, any question?

**[06:55]** >> True story. I don't know what year it

**[06:58]** was. I think it was Dory's first year.

**[06:59]** She had this guy named Bobby. You might

**[07:02]** you might remember him. He came and he

**[07:05]** was trying to get us all to give him

**[07:06]** $1,000.

**[07:08]** And we were like,

**[07:10]** >> "Dude, what do you [ __ ] shit?"

**[07:12]** >> Become a founder of Kraken and made $50

**[07:14]** million and we all regret it. What?

**[07:16]** Wait, what was it? What?

**[07:17]** >> Oh crap.

**[07:18]** >> He was talking about tiptoe.

**[07:20]** >> He was sitting That was like 2012, 2013.

**[07:22]** I got to buy this Bitcoin thing. We're

**[07:24]** like, yeah, whatever, dude.

**[07:25]** >> Like, no, you got to look into this

**[07:27]** Bitcoin thing. And it was like really

**[07:28]** cheap. And it's like he had a link

**[07:30]** emperor. He had the indexing software

**[07:33]** stuff. I think his intro was like

**[07:35]** Harvard or something. I remember he had

**[07:37]** a Harvard background.

**[07:39]** >> He ended up just quitting everything.

**[07:41]** From what I heard, he made like 50

**[07:42]** million. That was like 50 million many

**[07:44]** years ago.

**[07:44]** >> Wow. and Kevin Bambino

**[07:47]** way out

**[07:50]** >> 50 million Bitcoin was like 30 bucks and

**[07:53]** I was like no down

**[07:57]** [laughter]

**[08:00]** >> hey guys um cuz I want to say this so

**[08:04]** that when it comes you're going to be

**[08:05]** like damn you know it's going to be

**[08:06]** recorded you know or at least audio uh I

**[08:09]** remember when I used to tell and present

**[08:11]** on short videos being so important right

**[08:13]** but they wasn't in Google yet, right?

**[08:16]** And I even showed people, yo, look, bro,

**[08:18]** this [ __ ] is in Bing. They have short

**[08:20]** videos and long videos. Why is why would

**[08:23]** Google not do this? Especially because

**[08:24]** people's attention spans are so short,

**[08:27]** right? So then, you know how justified I

**[08:30]** felt, bro, when I saw short videos on

**[08:33]** the ser?

**[08:36]** Well,

**[08:38]** that that's how he's gonna feel. You

**[08:40]** know what I mean? when posit

**[08:44]** right just from telling you that bro I'm

**[08:47]** telling you Matt

**[08:48]** >> yeah one of you

**[08:48]** >> one other thing just from the news we're

**[08:49]** talking about gro and pulling in the

**[08:51]** real time stuff uh because we're seeing

**[08:52]** things like uh Iran you know currently

**[08:54]** in the news as of today so for the

**[08:56]** recording purposes today is January 16th

**[08:58]** 2026 so Iran's currency in in recent

**[09:01]** weeks went to nothing so you had your

**[09:03]** fiat currency so you saw an influx of

**[09:05]** people jumping into the privacy coins

**[09:07]** because they had a flight to safety and

**[09:08]** they couldn't buy gold or silver so

**[09:10]** that's what they could do there. Now,

**[09:11]** will that necessarily happen here?

**[09:13]** Probably not. But what the interesting

**[09:15]** thing is is that the office of the

**[09:16]** controller of the currency and other

**[09:18]** things that are coming in there on the

**[09:19]** currency side. Um, you're going to see

**[09:20]** the ability now, they approved it uh at

**[09:22]** the banking level that banks have been

**[09:24]** given the green light to do it where

**[09:25]** they can engage in riskless crypto

**[09:27]** transactions. So, the bank can become a

**[09:30]** broker. So, I don't trust I don't know

**[09:31]** anything. It's Bitcoin. I don't do a

**[09:32]** wallet. So, Bank of America, Chase, if

**[09:34]** they so choose. And I don't know if it's

**[09:35]** a branch by branch level or state byst

**[09:37]** state or soon just nationwide or crypto

**[09:39]** the credit unions, you can see at a

**[09:41]** local credit union, you could walk in

**[09:43]** there and your grandma or whatever could

**[09:44]** walk in and say, "I want to buy this

**[09:46]** Bitcoin thing." And they could engage a

**[09:47]** buy and sell, maybe capture a small

**[09:49]** little spread, but they can't front run

**[09:51]** or they'll have some restrictions on it.

**[09:53]** But also with the new ISO uh standards

**[09:55]** and some of the other things that are

**[09:56]** going on in the news on that your

**[09:58]** Walmart, I believe, is going to accept

**[09:59]** Bitcoin. Um, and then on I think I

**[10:01]** mentioned one thing very briefly on

**[10:02]** there, but something that DPIN that DPIN

**[10:05]** is the decentralized physical

**[10:07]** infrastructure network where they're

**[10:08]** going to have um and I forgot what the

**[10:10]** parent company is. I know some of them

**[10:11]** will you can actually hold hardware on

**[10:13]** your homes to uh or buildings wherever

**[10:15]** in flight path say of the low-level

**[10:16]** drones that are flying because they need

**[10:18]** more precise data than the current FAA

**[10:20]** regular airline flight. So at the thing

**[10:22]** of the sub 30,000 foot altitude. So they

**[10:25]** need people like us to come in and own

**[10:26]** nodes. And now the question is the

**[10:28]** return on investment stuff like so I'm

**[10:31]** looking at that

**[10:33]** actual hardware hardware but you get

**[10:35]** rewarded with x amount of crypto nodes

**[10:37]** back

**[10:38]** >> I have a buddy that does that

**[10:39]** >> yeah he drives around

**[10:41]** >> well around his track and gets crypto

**[10:43]** for it

**[10:44]** >> and that's what the you can receive it

**[10:46]** however because depending on how it's

**[10:47]** structured I'm looking at the deepen

**[10:49]** nodes there's a new search engine that's

**[10:51]** right now the we talk about search

**[10:53]** engines all day long I think there are

**[10:54]** five search engines that own the index

**[10:57]** of billions and billions of pages.

**[10:58]** There's Google, Bing, Yandex, BYU, and a

**[11:01]** and a fifth one. There's a potential

**[11:03]** sixth one, but right now, I don't want

**[11:05]** to put it up there yet. They're selling

**[11:07]** nodes on it, but it's going to be a

**[11:08]** decentralized one, but they've invested

**[11:10]** it in the actual index, and then they

**[11:12]** would make their money on API data and

**[11:13]** stuff like that. They reward us instead

**[11:15]** of a centralized server like like go to.

**[11:17]** So, the question is, oh, everyone, oh,

**[11:18]** there are 500 search engines out there,

**[11:20]** but everyone uses Google or Bing or

**[11:21]** whatever it is. In this case, they're

**[11:24]** doing um they're going to give those

**[11:25]** nodes, but even so, even a small little

**[11:27]** crypto miner or their nodes, I'm looking

**[11:28]** and I don't I couldn't put it in there

**[11:30]** yet. They don't yet have the ability for

**[11:32]** us to drop in links and append our

**[11:34]** crypto miners or our deepen hardware

**[11:36]** miners yet with a clickable link or even

**[11:38]** a readable even just pure text, but they

**[11:40]** could read it. It's not there yet, but

**[11:41]** I'm waiting to get answer. So, followup

**[11:43]** that you could actually you could slap

**[11:45]** in a crypto miner at your client's

**[11:46]** office, the cheapo ones for 10 bucks.

**[11:49]** you don't care if it then you slap it in

**[11:50]** there because you have the IP address

**[11:51]** and then you can slap in a link forward

**[11:53]** slash keller for water heater or

**[11:55]** whatever and then you have a keller IP

**[11:57]** address running all the time and then on

**[11:59]** the crypto minor things so the question

**[12:01]** is would that be appropriate is it

**[12:02]** better for a tier two this is where the

**[12:04]** nuance in the weeds is where I've been

**[12:05]** going in but that's where it's going

**[12:06]** >> I have a question um the URLs you know

**[12:10]** you're talking about them getting

**[12:11]** indexed can you tell if people crawl

**[12:13]** them or not

**[12:14]** >> yeah uh the easiest one copy paste does

**[12:16]** it show up in Google then the question

**[12:17]** is I I use hrefs as the as the base as a

**[12:19]** proxy.

**[12:20]** >> I wouldn't do that. If Google's crawling

**[12:22]** them, they're they're in the link

**[12:23]** database.

**[12:24]** >> That's what I'm think. But I'm having

**[12:25]** some trouble getting that because some

**[12:26]** of them are so weird like they're off a

**[12:28]** blockchain explorer.

**[12:29]** >> So you can't tell really if they're

**[12:30]** being crawled by Google.

**[12:33]** Do we have reports?

**[12:35]** >> I I try to look at competitors once are

**[12:38]** >> and and then nothing else. I just th I

**[12:40]** throw some tier 2 links or Omega or

**[12:42]** something just to force it and see if I

**[12:43]** can get anything out of it. My data

**[12:45]** isn't that great at it yet. I mean, I'd

**[12:46]** love to talk some of the mechanics.

**[12:48]** That's that's a great question.

**[12:49]** >> Yeah.

**[12:49]** >> Okay. So, I just want to because you

**[12:51]** talked fast as one of So, you can't see

**[12:55]** Google.

**[12:56]** >> Sometimes you can't, but only after it's

**[12:57]** already been fully indexed, but has it

**[12:59]** been crawled yet? That

**[13:00]** >> can you see crawl data on the stuff that

**[13:02]** you're talking about?

**[13:03]** >> Not yet. Because because you don't have

**[13:04]** like search console, you don't have

**[13:05]** analytics yet because it's all third

**[13:08]** party. So, because I don't control

**[13:09]** anything

**[13:10]** >> and that's why I'm using something like

**[13:11]** a crawler, Samrush, HS kind of as a

**[13:13]** proxy even if it doesn't show up in

**[13:15]** Google. It's not it's not pretty and

**[13:17]** it's clunky, but great question that

**[13:19]** that's something I need to end for us

**[13:21]** going forward.

**[13:22]** >> Thank you.

**[13:23]** >> Questions? Anybody have any questions

**[13:25]** for any of our marvelous speakers up

**[13:27]** here?

**[13:30]** >> No questions.

**[13:32]** Might as well.

**[13:32]** >> Yes.

**[13:34]** >> I'm really interested

**[13:40]** I call them parasites, but

**[13:43]** >> can I have access to the stores.

**[13:46]** >> Yeah. Yeah. No, let me get the let me

**[13:47]** get something together. I just didn't

**[13:48]** know what would resonate with people.

**[13:49]** So, I'll make sure I get something to

**[13:50]** you. Also, I read you're doing something

**[13:52]** on eye gaming and local. Is that um on

**[13:55]** yours when you speak? Is that tomorrow

**[13:56]** or Sunday?

**[13:57]** >> Sunday.

**[13:58]** >> Sunday. Are you doing more like

**[13:59]** scavenger hunts and gamifying a city?

**[14:02]** >> Is that what you're doing yet or no?

**[14:04]** >> But I'm really interested.

**[14:06]** >> Yeah. Okay.

**[14:07]** >> Hey, Matt, we're gonna create a game,

**[14:10]** >> right? We're going to create a game,

**[14:11]** throw it on there, case study the whole

**[14:13]** [ __ ] Neesa, you down? We're going to

**[14:15]** take we're going to what we talked about

**[14:16]** yesterday. Let's just create our own

**[14:18]** [ __ ] throw it out there, case study the

**[14:20]** whole [ __ ] up. If it works, then we'll

**[14:22]** do it again private and monetize it. But

**[14:25]** and that would be a great way to test,

**[14:26]** right?

**[14:27]** >> Yeah, that that could work. And also

**[14:28]** even if you work say with at the local

**[14:29]** level with the Chamber of Commerce, if

**[14:31]** you have an otherwise boring town,

**[14:33]** right, whatever, you could theoretically

**[14:34]** go there and take raw pieces of land and

**[14:36]** then have people go out as like a as a

**[14:38]** physical scavenger hunt with augmented

**[14:39]** reality clickable link and the content

**[14:42]** something

**[14:43]** but you could but your video then you

**[14:45]** could have that piece of cont say

**[14:47]** learning of just uh Keller, right? So

**[14:49]** you could have Keller Texas, learn

**[14:51]** Keller Texas, but it's brought to you by

**[14:53]** Plum House Plumbing or Michael's roofers

**[14:57]** or whatever it is appended into the AI

**[14:59]** content with the logos have a physical

**[15:01]** scavenger hunt, but if the weather isn't

**[15:02]** dependent, people can't physically do

**[15:04]** whatever, then they could go on a

**[15:05]** metaverse scavenger hunt where you could

**[15:07]** appensate promo codes on the back or

**[15:09]** some sort of token event or something

**[15:10]** like that, but it's still in its

**[15:11]** infancy. But you could make an otherwise

**[15:13]** boring city come alive. And then it's my

**[15:16]** old minor league baseball thing.

**[15:17]** Tonight's thing is brought to you in

**[15:19]** part, this third inning is brought to

**[15:20]** you in part by SEO Rockstars or

**[15:21]** whatever, right? But then you can append

**[15:23]** the content and sponsor with a clickable

**[15:25]** link back to them or a landing page on

**[15:26]** the Chamber of Commerce, but it's that

**[15:28]** page is sponsored with the link so they

**[15:29]** get the URL juice, but you're getting

**[15:31]** that IP traffic coming in and engagement

**[15:33]** possibly.

**[15:34]** >> You keep saying it's not there yet and I

**[15:36]** mean I agree, right? But anybody ever

**[15:38]** heard of Pokemon Go?

**[15:40]** >> Anybody ever seen kids going around? So

**[15:43]** it's possible, right? And then for I

**[15:44]** gaming dog possible because you make the

**[15:46]** game make them get involved.

**[15:48]** >> Well, and and that that's going to be

**[15:50]** fascinating stuff because because now

**[15:51]** you could you can make local come alive

**[15:54]** >> combined with the videos we learned

**[15:55]** today.

**[15:55]** >> Awesome.

**[15:56]** >> Aaron, you have a question. Okay. Okay.

**[15:58]** >> Brian,

**[15:59]** >> I got a question for Joe. If there's a

**[16:01]** roll up, let's just say four companies

**[16:04]** and one company is doing a million,

**[16:07]** second company's doing two million,

**[16:08]** third company's doing three million,

**[16:10]** fourth company's doing four million.

**[16:11]** they do roll up and merge and there's

**[16:14]** going to be overlap of customers. Some

**[16:16]** companies in there may benefit more than

**[16:18]** others. If you're a paid media, if

**[16:20]** you're a social media or maybe two SEO

**[16:21]** companies, whatever the matrix is during

**[16:24]** that exit, how do you weigh the value of

**[16:27]** how much you get percentage of how much

**[16:28]** revenue you contribute?

**[16:30]** If your contribution can be complex

**[16:33]** because we may have a better overlap of

**[16:36]** customers than the other company over

**[16:37]** here and one company may be a better

**[16:40]** entrylevel service than another company

**[16:43]** that is a better upsell or whatever it

**[16:45]** may be. How do you map that out on how

**[16:48]** much do I get now?

**[16:49]** >> Oh, I love that question. It's loaded

**[16:52]** question.

**[16:53]** >> Loaded. Yeah,

**[16:54]** >> I have to Okay, top my head. I think the

**[16:57]** the to start the um I'm have to stay on

**[17:01]** the side of it because I'm running this

**[17:02]** >> top of my head. I would say

**[17:05]** based on revenue contribution is a

**[17:08]** framework to start. But if you really

**[17:10]** look into it, there's got to be a way to

**[17:13]** rule out the overlap, right? Because

**[17:15]** when you when you when you JV together

**[17:17]** on the on on the road up, you can

**[17:19]** probably clearly map it out what is

**[17:22]** who's contributing to what in what

**[17:23]** stages of the business. So there'll be

**[17:25]** always a way to track it.

**[17:27]** I could see that creating conflict

**[17:29]** because I was like, "Oh, well, I'm the

**[17:31]** reason these customers are coming in."

**[17:33]** Another company say, "Well, I'm the

**[17:34]** reason we're increasing the average

**[17:35]** ticket." And the other company be like,

**[17:37]** "I'm the reason that we're retaining

**[17:38]** them because

**[17:40]** there value because of that because I am

**[17:44]** the the number like top generation.

**[17:48]** You would never have that revenue

**[17:49]** generation. You have this service that

**[17:50]** don't retain them. Maybe it's a

**[17:52]** conversion rate optimization."

**[17:54]** And so as it grows, is it a four-way

**[17:56]** equal split? Is it like, well, you get

**[17:58]** 36%. You get X percent. How do you come

**[18:02]** up with that complexity of some saying,

**[18:04]** I deserve more than you because I am

**[18:06]** doing X. Each person feels like they're

**[18:08]** doing more than, you know, they want

**[18:11]** more. Yeah. They're contributing more.

**[18:13]** >> If I was leading that road up, this is

**[18:15]** what I would do. I when when everybody

**[18:17]** join force together, I would first clear

**[18:20]** it out because there's no upsell yet,

**[18:22]** right? There's no oh I bought in the

**[18:24]** customer then you upsell that wasn't

**[18:26]** that wasn't happening yet that's stage

**[18:28]** two that happened after you decide to

**[18:31]** join force road up right so I would say

**[18:33]** when you decide to join together that is

**[18:36]** the moment to define like to clearly

**[18:39]** define like what are we thinking who is

**[18:42]** going to contribute to what and map out

**[18:43]** the entire customer journey so I would

**[18:45]** say the fair way to do it is and when

**[18:47]** that happen when you join force together

**[18:50]** that's you mapped out the percentage

**[18:51]** because after that it's become it

**[18:53]** agreement right it's a two stage it's a

**[18:55]** twostage thing because based on what you

**[18:57]** say if you don't draw up the agreement

**[18:58]** in the when you join together that's

**[19:00]** become super messy because I can say my

**[19:03]** conversion rate clean everything trump

**[19:05]** everything you can bring in all you want

**[19:07]** right I increase 20% conversion rate do

**[19:10]** I put business so I really believe it's

**[19:13]** I was going to do it I do it in stages

**[19:15]** join together define it clearly based on

**[19:18]** what everybody can part and after that

**[19:20]** you partner that's you you're on

**[19:23]** everybody benefit

**[19:24]** >> at that starting point. I'm assuming

**[19:26]** it's not a four-way split.

**[19:28]** >> It would not be because when they come

**[19:30]** in they already at they already at

**[19:32]** different sizes already, right? But

**[19:34]** that's a total divided by what you're

**[19:36]** contributing in at what stages. So it in

**[19:39]** the beginning you can clearly define

**[19:41]** until thing got muddy until you have a

**[19:43]** customer like wait a minute my 100

**[19:44]** customer that I bought in now you have

**[19:46]** the upsell you increase you know the AOV

**[19:48]** by 20%. But then the the conversion guy

**[19:50]** said, "But you know what? I changed up

**[19:52]** everything. That's why you increase

**[19:53]** another conversion rate by 5%." See, but

**[19:55]** that's but that but that

**[19:57]** >> amount of revenue but the most amount of

**[19:59]** value is there. Are you rewarded for

**[20:01]** that?

**[20:01]** >> I would say I would say I'm

**[20:04]** thinking right now top of my head I'm

**[20:07]** not going to assign a value to the value

**[20:10]** portion yet until I know exactly who is

**[20:14]** on the table.

**[20:17]** Right.

**[20:19]** followup question following this

**[20:20]** scenario.

**[20:22]** >> Good question. Now

**[20:23]** >> you got to answer first. When you're

**[20:25]** this roll up, are you talking about four

**[20:27]** companies merge up and they're going to

**[20:29]** try to do the exit soon or they roll up

**[20:32]** work together for a while and now that's

**[20:34]** a whole new company that just started

**[20:36]** working together and then they exit.

**[20:38]** Which one work together for a while?

**[20:39]** Because you're gonna have overlap

**[20:41]** customers where I'm SEO, you're CRO,

**[20:44]** you're a software, you're paid media,

**[20:46]** you're social media. people alone who

**[20:48]** are doing great, but we got

**[20:49]** >> that's a lot of different worlds. Let me

**[20:51]** ask a question that I think was very

**[20:53]** helpful along the same lines. Yo Joe,

**[20:56]** what if it's four SEO agencies that do

**[20:58]** the same exact [ __ ] following the same

**[21:01]** numbers he said, right? One's doing one,

**[21:03]** one's doing two blah blah. So 10 mil

**[21:05]** total, four companies,

**[21:07]** >> then would it go off IBIDA avoid

**[21:11]** the same

**[21:12]** >> and and they're trying to exit quick. So

**[21:13]** like me and if I had an agency me and

**[21:16]** three people team up what's the ebida

**[21:17]** let's exit how would that like how would

**[21:20]** something like that work if it would

**[21:21]** work

**[21:22]** >> okay if you were doing that way so the

**[21:24]** only people I would team up to roll up

**[21:26]** is you don't share the same book right

**[21:28]** you have no you have no conflict right

**[21:29]** because all

**[21:30]** >> all unique customers same industry

**[21:32]** >> right so if you're in the same industry

**[21:34]** three SEO agency combined together then

**[21:37]** you just split the you just do the um

**[21:41]** the equity based on the ela that you

**[21:43]** contribute. Yeah, that that's a clean

**[21:45]** cut. Now, to answer the Brian question,

**[21:47]** that's kind of the roll up that we talk

**[21:49]** about, right? Okay, you have one SEO

**[21:51]** agency, then you have a social media

**[21:53]** agency, then you have a paperclip

**[21:54]** agency, then I mean, let's just say

**[21:57]** there's three and then web design with

**[22:00]** web design, then you upsell everything

**[22:01]** else,

**[22:02]** >> right?

**[22:03]** >> When that's the case, I would more focus

**[22:05]** on the truth is there's no clean cut at

**[22:08]** the beginning. I would more focus on

**[22:11]** after you combine together how much

**[22:13]** bigger you can be together because if

**[22:15]** you think about it let's just say okay

**[22:18]** it's four company easier right is 25%

**[22:21]** fair I don't know so how much more do

**[22:23]** you want 30 what like 30 uh 20 25

**[22:30]** if I was leading it the talk the true

**[22:32]** talk is if we exit for $100 million that

**[22:37]** you know you cannot freaking do it alone

**[22:39]** Is that extra 5% that much of a

**[22:41]** different? It is different but compared

**[22:43]** to you have to do it alone to pointless

**[22:45]** no deal.

**[22:46]** >> What if it's so skewed though like okay

**[22:49]** we have four companies and I'm the

**[22:51]** lowest revenue. Let's just say one

**[22:52]** million. One two three four. We joined

**[22:54]** forces at 1 million but after we joined

**[22:56]** I become 90% of the future revenue and

**[22:58]** I'm now generating you know I don't know

**[23:01]** five million and now I become the

**[23:03]** weakest revenue at the starting point

**[23:05]** but as the company matures I'm the

**[23:07]** strongest product and any future revenue

**[23:09]** I'm doing 90%. Like why am I only

**[23:11]** getting 25% when 90% of the revenue

**[23:14]** after we join forces is because of me

**[23:15]** >> because you wanted to roll up

**[23:18]** >> you can well okay great let's put this

**[23:20]** way let's look at it it differently if

**[23:23]** you would have a startup um four ways

**[23:26]** right CEO COO CTO CMO combined together

**[23:30]** you all put in 100 grand together to

**[23:32]** combine a $400 based company startup

**[23:35]** right your job when you start is equally

**[23:38]** distribute so now Okay, on the exit, you

**[23:41]** know how it is when startup the CTO do

**[23:43]** most of the stuff in the beginning if

**[23:45]** it's a software company. Then the CEO

**[23:47]** doesn't do a whole lot until there's

**[23:48]** money and more people involved. The CEO

**[23:51]** absolutely do nothing until you have

**[23:53]** employees. So now even though the work

**[23:56]** is in proportionately in different

**[23:58]** stages of that of that side of life at

**[24:01]** the end of exit would you say well but

**[24:03]** when I exit the CEO actually and the CEO

**[24:07]** and CEO arguably doing most of the work

**[24:09]** deleted it deleted the point would would

**[24:12]** at that point if there's a startup

**[24:14]** combined would you go back and say you

**[24:16]** know what CTO you're not going to do 25%

**[24:18]** I'm gonna give you five see what I mean

**[24:21]** I think if you think about that Okay.

**[24:23]** Then you see rolling up is exactly the

**[24:26]** same thing. You partner with something

**[24:28]** this whole new thing even it's not

**[24:30]** called startup but the mentality behind

**[24:33]** it is identical right you come in at

**[24:35]** different stages doing different thing

**[24:37]** that's why you can either distribute a

**[24:40]** the equity based on contribution of the

**[24:42]** revenue or you can do a vetting schedule

**[24:44]** as well right you can do a vetting

**[24:46]** schedule like a lot of startup does it I

**[24:47]** mean good startup actually do vetting

**[24:50]** schedule instead of like a four-way

**[24:51]** split right if you look at like all the

**[24:54]** one that go to billin there's no way

**[24:57]** they will split evenly in the very

**[24:59]** beginning or even co do not earn

**[25:01]** everything you have to you have to earn

**[25:03]** your vetting schedule because what if

**[25:05]** you don't produce so to answer your

**[25:07]** question if you have a very clear

**[25:09]** vetting schedule based on the the end

**[25:11]** version of the exit that you want to

**[25:13]** create you can kind of gauge okay this

**[25:16]** guy bringing in web design is the

**[25:18]** beginning right and then the next

**[25:20]** product probably is it a social media

**[25:23]** because it's the next uh value letter

**[25:24]** that's only three grand a month and Then

**[25:26]** the highest is the SEO because it cost

**[25:28]** the longest time, right? So you can kind

**[25:30]** of walk the whole journey and figure out

**[25:32]** what which service is going to

**[25:34]** contribute to what revenue chain, right?

**[25:36]** And then you can have a vetting schedule

**[25:38]** accordingly based on that price point

**[25:40]** and then vet it based on what is really

**[25:42]** produced and not produced.

**[25:44]** >> Would you take on let's see if there's

**[25:45]** four and there's a fifth company and

**[25:48]** they're doing no revenue but you're like

**[25:50]** we need that. How do you value that?

**[25:53]** >> I would just buy them out

**[25:54]** >> prevenue. What if they say I want to be

**[25:56]** a part of the exit? [cough] Let me let

**[25:57]** me lock arms. I want to do the roll up,

**[25:59]** but I'm prere.

**[26:00]** >> I would say you're going to have to

**[26:02]** assign a value yourself. If you if this

**[26:04]** guy say no, right? Same thing is like

**[26:06]** the book, right? You're going to have to

**[26:08]** assign you're going to have to assign a

**[26:09]** value for that for that particular value

**[26:11]** because if you say, okay, this guy have

**[26:13]** no revenue, but yet if I if they become

**[26:16]** part of us, we're going to increase I

**[26:18]** don't know, AVO AOV by 50% like

**[26:20]** instantly or there's a value for that

**[26:23]** and that's the number I'll use. So I

**[26:25]** think the way I treat all this like

**[26:27]** equity split is you just need to assign

**[26:29]** an honest number if you were the other

**[26:31]** guy,

**[26:32]** >> right?

**[26:32]** >> Well, what he said, so like what he just

**[26:35]** said and you just answer would a

**[26:36]** potential option be to like do some

**[26:39]** phantom equity that vets if certain KPIs

**[26:42]** are met and if they're not met then [ __ ]

**[26:44]** out of here.

**[26:44]** >> Yep, you can do that's that's what I was

**[26:46]** saying like vetting schedule I think is

**[26:48]** most solution to is a solution to most

**[26:52]** equity or disagreement. Because right

**[26:55]** you say I can do this you say you say

**[26:57]** you might do this well okay let's let's

**[27:00]** trust but verify right because if that's

**[27:03]** the case then you apply the same rule to

**[27:05]** everybody else then everybody could be

**[27:07]** in at exit everybody get out and exit

**[27:10]** and based on performance that you say

**[27:12]** you you agree

**[27:13]** >> I mean wouldn't you also have in a

**[27:15]** scenario like that it has four people

**[27:18]** they already come in with a value of of

**[27:21]** of and so if you get a 15 or x value and

**[27:24]** somebody unfortunately passes away in

**[27:26]** the middle or one of the CEOs gets

**[27:29]** fired, their value of their company has

**[27:31]** already been set. So couldn't there be

**[27:33]** like a base if they walk away? They

**[27:35]** don't want to work with you anymore. If

**[27:37]** this is your value when we exit, you can

**[27:39]** get your four million. That's what your

**[27:41]** value is coming in.

**[27:42]** >> You could you could do that. That gets

**[27:45]** extremely complicated, right? Because if

**[27:47]** you think about it, if you decide to

**[27:49]** join force and exit, there got to be a

**[27:51]** timeline. It cannot be like in we're

**[27:53]** going to do it indefinite right it got

**[27:55]** to be a time usually well it depends

**[27:57]** three year five year whatever the

**[27:59]** timeline is right you have exit go if

**[28:02]** you would go to trial to do the roll up

**[28:05]** usually what we do is we reverse

**[28:06]** engineer on figure out what strategic

**[28:08]** buyer that will even buy us then you go

**[28:11]** figure it out right that's how that's

**[28:13]** the game you go figure out what they

**[28:15]** want to buy versus creating what exactly

**[28:18]** what they want to buy and then you

**[28:20]** create that thing and you give it to

**[28:21]** That's how you get the biggest exit in

**[28:24]** the fastest way because right now you

**[28:26]** there's a chance that you you don't know

**[28:28]** what you're rolling up right like

**[28:30]** especially the fifth guy right in your

**[28:32]** scenario. Four guy creating value one

**[28:35]** guy no value yet but you think it's

**[28:37]** going to create value well let's ask the

**[28:40]** future buyer do you think it's going to

**[28:41]** work?

**[28:44]** >> Is the voting controlled by the guy who

**[28:46]** has the most amount of revenue at the

**[28:48]** time of the roll off? I'm four million.

**[28:49]** I got the most in revenue. You have four

**[28:51]** CEOs. You have four alphas. Who is gonna

**[28:53]** lead? If I'm saying, well, I'm gonna

**[28:55]** lead. I'm the $4 million revenue. I have

**[28:58]** the most voting shares. I'm contributing

**[29:00]** the most. I'm the boss.

**[29:01]** >> Great question. I forgot which um public

**[29:04]** trade company did that. They literally

**[29:06]** told you, "Sure, we're going to go IPO,

**[29:08]** but all of you have no voting right at

**[29:11]** all. Ever. You can say whatever you want

**[29:13]** to say." like it's you can you can

**[29:15]** create whatever agreement you create

**[29:17]** before you join force together. You can

**[29:19]** say you know what even though I'm the

**[29:21]** smallest guy but I want to call a shot.

**[29:23]** If the other guy say yes, then put in an

**[29:26]** agreement. That's what will be it. Like

**[29:28]** basically when you when you do the deal

**[29:30]** together, that's when the time you

**[29:32]** figure out all this, right? Like if

**[29:34]** that's what you want, you say, "Okay, I

**[29:35]** want to go with uh whoever have the

**[29:37]** highest security." Like let's say like

**[29:39]** voting, right? Right. Each percentage is

**[29:41]** one vote for example, right? If that's

**[29:44]** what you want to do, well, it's up to me

**[29:46]** say are you sure? Okay. Or like no.

**[29:50]** Then you know your answer. Then you you

**[29:52]** have to negotiate, right?

**[29:54]** >> The most important thing is four people

**[29:55]** have to get along. It has to be

**[29:56]** chemistry.

**[29:57]** >> Oh, huge thing, right? The idea of man

**[30:00]** you don't just lock arms.

**[30:03]** >> It has to be. It's same thing as like

**[30:04]** partnership, right? Who who here has a

**[30:06]** business that have a partner?

**[30:08]** >> How do you feel about partnership if you

**[30:10]** cannot get along?

**[30:11]** >> American

**[30:15]** marriage because your whole money tied

**[30:17]** to it. I mean, your marriage is tied to

**[30:18]** 50% so to speak, right? the business

**[30:21]** 100%

**[30:23]** 100% tied to it. So never do business

**[30:27]** with anyone that you don't like. It's

**[30:29]** because of money. It it doesn't work. It

**[30:31]** just life is too short, man. All right,

**[30:34]** that's that's my take on that.

**[30:36]** >> I have a question for Chad because I

**[30:37]** want to ask him before I forget.

**[30:39]** >> What? What? You don't want to answer no

**[30:41]** questions, Chad? With your cowboy hat?

**[30:44]** [ __ ] got me in sunflower dresses.

**[30:47]** >> Those are real.

**[30:47]** >> You want to answer some questions? Those

**[30:49]** weren't AI, by the way. [laughter]

**[30:52]** >> He's gonna play it off like it's AI box.

**[30:55]** That was so real.

**[30:57]** >> So, what I wanted to know was um so I

**[31:00]** started building a little tool with some

**[31:02]** API blah blah blah. And then what I hit

**[31:04]** was I didn't like this price blah blah

**[31:07]** blah. So like you know between cling

**[31:09]** potato this that you know G uh Google's

**[31:14]** just too [ __ ] expensive. I'm not

**[31:15]** doing that. It's not what I'm looking to

**[31:17]** do, right? I wanted to know um

**[31:20]** >> do you have like insight like yo cling

**[31:23]** mic is good for this this is good like

**[31:24]** you know or you haven't tested them that

**[31:26]** much I haven't gotten that far down that

**[31:28]** line

**[31:29]** >> no I've tested them a lot um

**[31:32]** it is kind of a crapshoot

**[31:34]** but the ones worth yeah the ones that

**[31:39]** this is on camera so

**[31:41]** >> they're not then cool but there's not

**[31:43]** >> I don't want to rip on any of them but

**[31:45]** like some of them are terrible

**[31:47]** physics like they're just not there yet

**[31:49]** and some of them are coming up quick

**[31:51]** like Sadream

**[31:53]** >> is coming up and it's it's looking

**[31:54]** really good and they just finally went

**[31:56]** into 1.0 you know, but if you want to be

**[31:59]** like safe like cling will will get you

**[32:01]** there at like half the price of Sora and

**[32:03]** Vio

**[32:05]** and the in the fifth partner in your

**[32:06]** scenario who comes in and they want

**[32:08]** everything. It's like Kim Kardashian,

**[32:10]** right? Like her her brand is way

**[32:12]** stronger than yours. So even has zero

**[32:15]** skills

**[32:16]** >> that changes the equation, right?

**[32:19]** >> Right.

**[32:19]** >> And you know the four million guy was

**[32:22]** the alpha. If his IB is the lowest, he

**[32:25]** ain't nobody. If dude with the million

**[32:26]** got the highest EBIDA, he's the one that

**[32:28]** you know what I mean? So that also right

**[32:30]** Joe.

**[32:30]** >> It's all on Yeah. It's all about EBIDA

**[32:32]** because you could do four million a

**[32:34]** year, but if your EBIT is 2%.

**[32:38]** >> So the cleanest the cleanest to do kind

**[32:40]** of going back to what you're saying, the

**[32:42]** the cleanest way to do it is you assign

**[32:45]** a valuation, but the the moment you join

**[32:47]** force

**[32:48]** >> and that evaluation, that percentage, it

**[32:50]** is

**[32:51]** >> it is it is what it is. No matter how it

**[32:53]** evolves

**[32:54]** because after it's become partnership

**[32:56]** right it's like okay I have this idea

**[32:58]** like Matt had this amazing idea right he

**[33:00]** come say okay I want a thousand from

**[33:02]** everybody right so okay tech speaking

**[33:05]** it's about what 20 grand right there

**[33:07]** right in the room okay then it's up to

**[33:10]** him to say okay for 20 grand you

**[33:12]** actually get half the company because I

**[33:14]** own the other half because my he can do

**[33:16]** that you don't have to agree

**[33:18]** >> wonder what if the the strongest guy we

**[33:20]** like owns 60%

**[33:22]** But as a company matures, they join

**[33:24]** forces. The social media is the revenue

**[33:26]** and this guy riding the cocktails for

**[33:28]** free.

**[33:29]** >> They got to be

**[33:30]** >> goes down to cuts.

**[33:31]** >> That's the risk that everybody taking.

**[33:33]** >> Okay. So, you really

**[33:34]** >> you have to and also same thing. It's

**[33:36]** almost like it's exact same thing,

**[33:37]** right? You start a startup, you have a

**[33:39]** CEO, you have CTO, you have CMO. The CTO

**[33:42]** performed, create a product. The CEO to

**[33:44]** sell the crap out of it. Then they raise

**[33:46]** money. The CMO couldn't do nothing. They

**[33:48]** cannot scale. Then what do they do?

**[33:50]** vetting schedule,

**[33:53]** >> right? Vetting schedule

**[34:00]** smart contracts to alleviate a lot of

**[34:01]** headaches in between like upfront. Have

**[34:03]** you seen that yet or not?

**[34:05]** >> Not um I have not seen that one because

**[34:08]** it added the capacity of that for while

**[34:10]** I'm here.

**[34:10]** >> I'm sorry.

**[34:11]** >> No, that's cool.

**[34:14]** >> I'll get my question later for you.

**[34:16]** >> That's actually that's actually a really

**[34:18]** great question. The reason I know about

**[34:20]** the vetting schedule because it got

**[34:21]** burned before literally it's exactly

**[34:24]** that situation.

**[34:26]** >> Oh my god. I have I had a I had a 50-50

**[34:28]** partner, right? The the other 50 partner

**[34:30]** is the money guy and supposed to do

**[34:32]** certain things. So it's the the

**[34:34]** responsibility is clearly listed out,

**[34:35]** right? But we did not add a fing

**[34:37]** schedule because I thought, okay, you

**[34:38]** put up the the money, I put up, you

**[34:40]** know, my connection, my experience, and

**[34:42]** you know, the whole vision, right? So

**[34:44]** we're all good. Well, halfway through he

**[34:46]** didn't do anything. So, okay, even he

**[34:48]** has money game, but you didn't do

**[34:50]** anything at all as your position is

**[34:52]** supposed to be. Then I go back and say,

**[34:54]** uh, what are we going to do?

**[34:55]** >> Best way to you don't have to do

**[34:57]** anything and get 50%.

**[34:58]** >> Yeah, exactly. Right. That's for the

**[35:01]** other guy. For the other guy, right?

**[35:03]** That's really isuck is the way to go.

**[35:06]** >> So, what happened was like I did not

**[35:08]** know anything about a vetting schedule

**[35:10]** at that time. I was lucky enough that,

**[35:11]** you know, a lot of smart people advising

**[35:13]** me. They're like, "Oh, did you do a

**[35:14]** vetting schedule?" I'm like, "No, what

**[35:16]** does that even mean?" Then they show me

**[35:18]** this table. I was like, "Whoa, this is

**[35:19]** like some hardcore [laughter]

**[35:22]** Excel spreadsheet, right?" I'm like,

**[35:23]** "Oh, well, that's what the uh startup

**[35:26]** private equity does." I was like, "Oh,

**[35:28]** okay. Can I have that spreadsheet?"

**[35:30]** Yeah. So, it works. So, vetting

**[35:32]** schedule, it really is answer to what

**[35:35]** you just said like because the question

**[35:38]** when it come down to what you're really

**[35:39]** asking is what if the other guy did not

**[35:41]** perform like when we joined together?

**[35:43]** What are we going to do? I don't want

**[35:44]** any set. Maybe he gets divorced becomes

**[35:46]** depressed and everyone wants like oh god

**[35:48]** >> you can put all those at the clause

**[35:50]** right you can put all those just like

**[35:51]** okay just say like if you I mean any

**[35:54]** substantial business would have um I

**[35:56]** forgot about about that clause they have

**[35:58]** a clause just saying that if the CEO the

**[36:01]** key executive or you know die divorce

**[36:04]** pass away lost or jail what needs to

**[36:06]** happen next. So that is part of it. Like

**[36:09]** you can you can have the lawyer written

**[36:11]** in to that and agree up point before you

**[36:13]** sign it and that would solve all that

**[36:14]** problem.

**[36:16]** >> I'm working on a deal right now and the

**[36:18]** guy tried to sneak in some of that stuff

**[36:20]** he just said and I was like yo [ __ ] is

**[36:23]** this [laughter] bro? Get out of here. Uh

**[36:24]** and also does everybody know what a

**[36:26]** vetted schedule is? If not maybe you

**[36:28]** could explain them because that's very

**[36:29]** important. All right. So vet schedule on

**[36:31]** on a very simple term is basically you

**[36:34]** create some milestone that the guy say

**[36:38]** he will add value to that or hit the

**[36:40]** milestone when that happen then he'll

**[36:42]** get x amount of percentage and once it's

**[36:45]** vest is done this his because he he he

**[36:48]** have achieved and deliver right what he

**[36:51]** promised to do

**[36:52]** >> and that's called phantom equity usually

**[36:54]** invested on a vetted schedule

**[36:56]** >> it could it could be phantom equity it

**[36:58]** depends

**[36:58]** >> it could be Yeah, vesting is is the term

**[37:01]** that they use. Yeah. When you raise when

**[37:03]** you raise money.

**[37:04]** >> So, Joe, break down. How does phantom

**[37:06]** equity work? It's in particularly with

**[37:08]** vesting.

**[37:09]** >> Okay. So, phantom equity, don't hold me

**[37:13]** to it. I'm a law lawyer. I'm not giving

**[37:15]** you law advice. All right. [laughter]

**[37:17]** >> But full disclaimer, legal advice for

**[37:19]** education,

**[37:19]** >> not legal advice. It's for education

**[37:21]** advice. My own personal experience.

**[37:22]** Phantom equity is you use it for

**[37:25]** something for a someone that you want to

**[37:27]** bring in together but you don't want to

**[37:29]** give them ownership.

**[37:32]** >> Yeah.

**[37:33]** >> You see what I'm talking about?

**[37:33]** >> Copy. Copy.

**[37:34]** >> So that's what it is. It's what the

**[37:35]** phantom equity for. So basically it's a

**[37:38]** glorified

**[37:40]** uh profit only share agreement if you

**[37:42]** can look at that way right because if

**[37:44]** you don't want to give out equity then

**[37:46]** the easiest things to do is you will do

**[37:48]** a profit share you would do a profit

**[37:50]** share only agreement with a exit clause

**[37:53]** because when it come down to it what is

**[37:55]** what's the business at the end it's only

**[37:57]** creating two things for you one income

**[38:00]** second a wealth generating asset that

**[38:03]** only worth anything if there's a buyer

**[38:06]** to pay for

**[38:07]** So the profit uh share agreement will

**[38:10]** cover the income portion of it, right?

**[38:12]** And then the exit clause will cover the

**[38:15]** asset value on it. So that way you don't

**[38:18]** have to give out equity really. So those

**[38:21]** are solution.

**[38:24]** >> I had one question for Sean, but anyone

**[38:26]** else finish

**[38:29]** ask you on on your case.

**[38:31]** someone

**[38:32]** >> great advice

**[38:33]** on the equity of equity is also great

**[38:36]** because a business also the third thing

**[38:38]** is is liability that brings on you right

**[38:41]** so if you're negotiating with someone

**[38:43]** who wants to join the company or wants

**[38:45]** equity as a partner coming in that's a

**[38:48]** good way to position phantom equity it's

**[38:51]** like well you want

**[38:53]** the proceeds of the company that sells

**[38:55]** but do you want to take on the liability

**[38:56]** right now if it doesn't work out next

**[38:58]** year you want to take on the loans you

**[38:59]** want to risk with all the, you know,

**[39:01]** things that we're taking on and the

**[39:02]** risks we're taking on to grow this. So

**[39:05]** that's how you can kind of frame it to

**[39:07]** position Phantom as a better alternative

**[39:09]** when you're bringing in some some

**[39:11]** partners or employees who want to get a

**[39:13]** little high and high.

**[39:14]** >> Yep. Exactly.

**[39:16]** >> Yeah, that's that's I mean glad you

**[39:17]** mentioned that. That's how usually

**[39:19]** Phantom Equity on usually is being asked

**[39:23]** by um the one that kind of bought on

**[39:26]** after you know the journey started,

**[39:28]** right? because they don't want to take

**[39:29]** on the liability and then but as the one

**[39:31]** that started the whole thing before you

**[39:33]** bought someone on like really smart dude

**[39:35]** like that like to reframe it as like but

**[39:37]** you know if we you know get lawsuit you

**[39:39]** won't get in trouble if we have uh in

**[39:42]** debt we have to get more money you don't

**[39:44]** have to put up more so that way you

**[39:45]** reframe it the other person was like oh

**[39:47]** yeah that's kind of cool I come I have

**[39:49]** the owner uh privilege but I don't have

**[39:50]** the wrong responsibility so you can

**[39:52]** reframe it that way that's great point

**[39:53]** >> hey I'm I like to piggyback on that I'm

**[39:56]** helping someone and coaching them doing

**[39:57]** white label work with this woman helping

**[39:59]** her out and she ended up luckily man got

**[40:02]** a profit share job slashmarketing deal

**[40:05]** and then got a rev share equity profit

**[40:08]** share slash equity play with the owner

**[40:11]** of of the place that she's working at.

**[40:13]** So, I was helping her, not like I'm a

**[40:15]** big expert at this, but I know enough to

**[40:17]** try to help someone. And they offered

**[40:20]** her 15% equity, but then they took it

**[40:23]** away. And I was like, "Yo, hold up. How

**[40:24]** they going to offer you 15%." And she

**[40:26]** was like, "Well, I had a call with him

**[40:27]** and he said he's in debt and so he, you

**[40:29]** know, he doesn't want to give me the

**[40:30]** debt. So, good point, dog." Right? So, I

**[40:32]** was like, "Yo, but hold on.

**[40:34]** >> How much debt is he in?" Right? Find it.

**[40:36]** Find out because get some Phantom equity

**[40:39]** that only vests, right? when you get him

**[40:41]** out of debt or he gets out of debt and

**[40:44]** they were drawing out the contract. And

**[40:46]** that's a very good point. I almost got

**[40:48]** sucked into a deal, right? Like almost I

**[40:51]** was very close, very close to send this

**[40:53]** [ __ ] to the lawyer and then I found out,

**[40:56]** you know, there was a lot of debt and if

**[40:59]** I would have signed that contract, like

**[41:01]** guys, understand like now you took on

**[41:04]** that debt, [ __ ] is real. So that was

**[41:07]** very good point, dog, because people get

**[41:09]** caught out there.

**[41:11]** Yeah.

**[41:11]** >> Any other questions? Oh, wait. You said

**[41:13]** you had a question for Sean.

**[41:14]** >> For Sean.

**[41:15]** >> Oh, here you go. I was just I was just

**[41:17]** gonna ask on the what you've been doing,

**[41:19]** the old school method of lead genen,

**[41:21]** rank and rent, whatever. But if we're in

**[41:23]** a bigger city like say Dallas used to

**[41:24]** develop DFW, could you now with what

**[41:27]** you're doing actually bring that back

**[41:29]** but in different languages so you could

**[41:31]** rank for DWI lawyers in Spanish or

**[41:33]** Chinese or using what you're doing here

**[41:35]** because you're likely not going to have

**[41:36]** the same amount of map packs and AI

**[41:38]** overview competition possibly on

**[41:42]** >> we heavily use Spanish.

**[41:44]** >> Yeah. Yeah. When even when I'm setting

**[41:47]** up Google ads campaigns we're using

**[41:49]** Spanish.

**[41:50]** >> Okay. I was just I mean would you do

**[41:52]** anything different like your schema

**[41:53]** would be in Spanish and everything else

**[41:55]** as well? [sighs]

**[41:57]** >> Not really.

**[42:00]** >> I haven't tried that. Simon

**[42:05]** >> H

**[42:08]** set up correctly fine.

**[42:10]** >> Okay.

**[42:14]** >> Yeah, it's mostly like an on page thing.

**[42:16]** I'm not really doing the schema in

**[42:18]** Spanish. Are you Simon?

**[42:22]** >> I fig

**[42:22]** >> didn't you just work on a Spanish

**[42:24]** project?

**[42:25]** >> I think schema is for bots to read

**[42:29]** >> and they can read they can read English

**[42:32]** or Spanish. So

**[42:33]** >> I agree. I agree with that.

**[42:34]** >> Yeah, we do a lot of Google ads in

**[42:36]** Spanish

**[42:37]** >> and I mean that's that's your testing

**[42:39]** too. So I mean like you figure out stuff

**[42:41]** from what you're testing in Spanish and

**[42:42]** then you can implement that. So

**[42:45]** >> reason ask is because with the very rare

**[42:46]** exceptions all the web three stuff is

**[42:48]** 100% English

**[42:49]** >> is it?

**[42:49]** >> Yeah. So I mean you hardly ever you see

**[42:51]** a couple NFTs in Spanish and stuff but

**[42:53]** for the most part I just I thought

**[42:54]** >> is English like worldwide

**[42:57]** >> because so much come came from it or

**[42:59]** they've converted it into it

**[43:00]** >> uh from the programming and this and

**[43:02]** even the European countries are doing it

**[43:04]** in English because of the distribution

**[43:06]** here because of all the blockchain

**[43:08]** everything. So I was just curious you

**[43:09]** know mapping it over into other

**[43:10]** languages. I mean that's way down the

**[43:12]** road, but you just want to be aware of

**[43:13]** it. But what you're doing even like also

**[43:15]** old rank and rent private lead genen

**[43:17]** sites PBN's but because what you're

**[43:19]** doing is so advanced you could

**[43:20]** theoretically I guess knock it out rank

**[43:22]** number one for a wider area than beyond

**[43:23]** Keller even though it's you know because

**[43:25]** we're so limited.

**[43:26]** >> Yeah. See when you when Okay. So the you

**[43:29]** want to do something really that's fun.

**[43:32]** Um the plumber that I picked up that

**[43:34]** months back he also had a commercial uh

**[43:37]** plumbing business. So, I got two plants

**[43:40]** at the same time. That commercial

**[43:41]** plumbing going that indepth on all the

**[43:44]** different things that commercial uh is

**[43:46]** involved and you can be way more

**[43:47]** technical. It's one of the funnest sites

**[43:49]** I've built in quite a while because you

**[43:51]** could just geek the hell out and that's

**[43:54]** acceptable on the commercial side. And

**[43:56]** we were doing getting in depth on like

**[43:58]** what we do in restaurants and commercial

**[44:00]** buildings and just everything. It was

**[44:02]** freaking it was just a freaking blast to

**[44:04]** get like that indepth. And you know,

**[44:08]** thank God for AI. I mean, I I I wanted

**[44:11]** to come up with half that [ __ ] I was

**[44:12]** having to constantly like, "Hey, look at

**[44:14]** all this shit." And I'd send it over to

**[44:15]** the to the client. He's like, "What do

**[44:17]** you think of that?" He's like, "Damn,

**[44:18]** yeah, I didn't think all that. Yeah,

**[44:20]** yeah, that's awesome. How about we do

**[44:22]** this?" I you know, and so it it turned

**[44:24]** out I mean, dude, the the intake form

**[44:27]** when implemented is so life-changing.

**[44:30]** It's it just

**[44:31]** >> Did you share that? Is that part of what

**[44:33]** you're going to share?

**[44:33]** >> Yeah, I'll need to upload it into the

**[44:35]** system. I need somebody to show me how

**[44:37]** to upload like the the naked uh the

**[44:39]** naked one. Um, and any other any any

**[44:42]** other stuff if there's any other

**[44:43]** requests that you guys have for like any

**[44:45]** other documents and and I I tried to

**[44:48]** present it at like the basic level so

**[44:51]** that you guys could like be thinking in

**[44:53]** your head, well, I could add this

**[44:54]** document. I could add this or I could do

**[44:56]** this, you know, you know, because I want

**[44:58]** you guys out there going, "Well, [ __ ]

**[45:00]** Sean, man, he he should have been doing

**[45:02]** this and that." And like you guys need

**[45:04]** to like innovate and come up with like

**[45:06]** more to do. I mean um because like I've

**[45:09]** already got like things that I'm doing

**[45:11]** like we're like like I said we're

**[45:13]** changing instead of using claw we're

**[45:15]** actually creating a program with cloud's

**[45:16]** API in it that's going to reference even

**[45:19]** more and there is actually there are

**[45:20]** reasons to build [clears throat] a

**[45:23]** program that is your blog system and not

**[45:26]** just do it in claude. There's there's

**[45:28]** stuff going on there that you can really

**[45:30]** just manipulate but you got to get into

**[45:32]** the vibe code and kind of understand

**[45:33]** some of that.

**[45:36]** Um, since you do so much GMBB stuff,

**[45:39]** when it comes to signing people up where

**[45:42]** Google now verifies owners

**[45:44]** >> and they give you that special thing for

**[45:46]** there's like, you know, not not really

**[45:49]** there's not that many organizations that

**[45:51]** can even do it, but there's quite a few.

**[45:53]** Do you have all of your customers go

**[45:55]** through that, get verified with that and

**[45:57]** blast that all over their sites?

**[45:59]** >> I don't know what you're referring to.

**[46:00]** >> You're talking about the local services

**[46:03]** stuff.

**[46:03]** >> Yeah, local services. Oh, local service

**[46:05]** ads.

**[46:06]** >> Oh, yeah. That

**[46:08]** >> you know, it says, you know,

**[46:09]** >> Oh, the check mark thing.

**[46:10]** >> Yeah, I'm a verify.

**[46:11]** >> Oh, dude. Yeah, that's on the client's

**[46:13]** hands. Good luck. Uh, that's there's

**[46:17]** that I can't be involved in a process

**[46:19]** like that. There's too much like I'm

**[46:20]** getting social security numbers. They're

**[46:22]** running it through Pinkerton's. That's I

**[46:24]** don't

**[46:25]** >> When you But when you get a client that

**[46:27]** can become a local, do you get them?

**[46:30]** >> Oh, 100%. I tell them it's the best

**[46:32]** thing they can do. I [ __ ] about local

**[46:33]** service ads a lot. Uh so one of my

**[46:36]** clients uh used to spend we were

**[46:38]** spending like $60,000 a month on Google

**[46:40]** ads. And so that was around when the

**[46:43]** local uh when the local service ads came

**[46:45]** out. So we went through the process of

**[46:47]** getting the local service ads set up and

**[46:49]** we set it up at $20,000, you know, give

**[46:52]** it a try. You want to guess how much we

**[46:54]** spent?

**[46:55]** >> Five.

**[46:56]** >> I don't even think we spent that. So I I

**[47:00]** prep my clients. I always tell them like

**[47:02]** local service ads, you have to have

**[47:03]** them. They're the the one of the best

**[47:06]** like returns on investment uh you can

**[47:08]** get, but you're also going to be angry

**[47:09]** because it won't let you spend more

**[47:11]** money.

**[47:12]** >> So, it's it's they're infuriating. They

**[47:16]** just drive you nuts. So, um

**[47:20]** so yeah, I help them out with local

**[47:22]** service ads. I I mean I do um Google

**[47:25]** ads. um are helping out with that and

**[47:28]** then you know um we're doing the social

**[47:31]** media uh to expand the brand.

**[47:34]** >> Okay, so no questions. All right, I

**[47:37]** think that's it. Thank you guys. Uh the

**[47:39]** panels, thank you Sean, Chad, MATT.

**[47:43]** [applause]

**[47:46]** And last little nugget, if you can get

**[47:49]** reviews in Spanish, it helps with when

**[47:52]** people start searching in Spanish. If

**[47:54]** you make a GMBB post, there's nothing

**[47:56]** stopping you from posting an English

**[47:58]** version and then a Spanish version.

**[48:00]** >> Yeah,

**[48:00]** >> this [ __ ] works. I'm dropping extra

**[48:02]** nuggets on y'all because as the

**[48:03]** questions come, I like to share.

**[48:06]** >> Say again.

**[48:07]** >> They translate it for the user anyway.

**[48:09]** Exactly. But it

**[48:11]** >> it does it make you show up a little

**[48:13]** more than you should, right? cuz you're

**[48:14]** the one that has uh comment